Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Possible Problem With Modern Prog
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Possible Problem With Modern Prog

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 13407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2022 at 07:41
Originally posted by carioca56 carioca56 wrote:

Most progressive bands of the 70's could support themselves with music alone. With rare exceptions, musicians in current bands have to earn a living by other means. It's hard to produce masterpieces having to divide between working and making music.

Hi,

Agreed.

However, the "center of the cyclone" has to be better focused, and I think that a lot of these "young" bands, lack the cohesion, and internal depth required to create something different and get by and away from the "working/commercial" sound of things, and specially so in the present state, where anything that "sounds like" is automatically added to the ranks!

You gotta remember that all the members of YES, JT, ELP, KC and many others were just over their teens, and very young 20's when they did what they did, and I think that it was the ability to FOCUS on what they hoped to achieve that made a difference ... not necessarily by itself, although a time and place helps ... for example ... progressive being a natural follow up from the Fillmore well known long cuts (will most of them EVER show up on CD? Fudge NO!) ... whereas in England it was probably a revolt against a lot of pop music, and its cousin, the blackguard called BBC ... that prevented a lot of new material from entering the fray for many years, and the attacks on many of those "pirate" radio stations is a well known and documented affair ... and no one, EVER, has trashed the BBC and their hidden involvement, and how those folks were paid to do the ugly stuff they did!

Modern prog only has an issue in that too many of the folks, very clear here, are into the SOUND of the music, instead of the music itself ... so you ended up with even more carbon copies of more carbon copies, and there is always someone posting how great that guitarist is, or how great that drummer is, and if you break it down, it is so monotonic and badly designed and defined, to the point where the musicianship should be questioned and the group not added to the annals of "progressive wastebasket".

Honestly, I would not, EVER, want to be a part of any Admin group voting for this or that ... because the sensibilities of many of those folks is to pigeonhole the material, rather than vote for its originality and idea/concept of adding them to PA simply to keep the list bigger and better than any other "progressive" (I like pop-gressive a lot), website out there!

But it creates a serious issue for listeners. And the worst, is no thread about the band and its work, which ought to tell you that fans are either stupid, or they won't bother hearing something else. Got put words in on that new JT thread, of Genesis thread, or ... heaven forbid that we don't find a reason to trash Jon one more time!

Again, too many of those threads are not about the "music" ... and thus, guess what you got in "modern prog" ... the same folks and sensibilities.

But try to raise that level and a couple of folks in this board will immediately jump on you, and the cowardice behind the rest of the members to say that right thing is worse!

Go ahead ... let the fans run the show ... the art will die a few days later!

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 29905
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2022 at 07:48
^ hey Moshkito, can you post anymore without being rude and insulting someone? Disapprove
Back to Top
Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team

Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 16284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2022 at 07:57
No he can't.
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
Back to Top
MortSahlFan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 01 2018
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 1967
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2022 at 12:28
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Production/engineering is one thing I'm picky about. I like a more organic sound, and 99% of drums are recorded horribly. The vocals are buried low, and for me, if the vocals aren't good, I'll go listen to something else. But I do love instrumentals.
Me too. Love good recording, mixing, and mastering. It's an art.

Could you list some of these bands/artists that have horrible drum sounds? And who are the 1% who record drums correctly?


Here's something I just heard five minutes ago. Chicago's drums used to sound great, especially with Danny Seraphine playing them... Now, it just sounds awful. I honestly couldn't finish it. Maybe I'll try again right now.

Now listen to this... It's like having a plate of great food. Then being fancy, "Let's add a bunch of things" and it's only worse. Reminds me of meals growing up, but enough of that.



Roger Waters' last album had drums sounding alright. The entire album was compressed, but that's the enire thing, not the drums specifically. Sounds like they took a microphone and recorded them without computers, etc.... I think it's more of a chronological thing. In the 80s, many bands went with that awful 80s drum sound. The snare drum was so loud, as if every stroke and song was "epic", but then the electronic sounding stuff. Loud cymbals. They sound nothing like actual drums, whether it's watching someone else, or listen to my own playing. People usually mention brick-walling, which is to make every moment loud as possible. It feels like there's no space between the microphone and instruments. Jimmy Page always talked about distance, shades.... Of course, no one uses that method, because it sounds awful, but so many are forced to just sound like everyone, which to me, is the opposite of an artist. The artist creates their own path, and if others want to copy/follow them, fine, but to just be trendy, ugh... Cheesy keyboards that just sound (I'm making a face I can't describe), so corny. The jangly strat sound... Even the synths sounded bad, as opposed to Pink Floyd (or others) doing it just a few years before. Yeah, it's "easier" to bring a light keyboard, but that's for a band that can't afford a few dollars to bring in a real piano, electric piano... And the programming, click-tracks, quantizing of sounds.


Edited by MortSahlFan - June 15 2022 at 12:30
My first album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUimy33lGbo

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 12216
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2022 at 13:50
I would suspect that most people who post on non prog music forums (let alone non music forums) are not very familiar with many (if any) post 70s prog bands. Let's face it. Most of the famous progressive rock bands (and thus the ones that most people know) are from the 70s.
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself
Back to Top
MortSahlFan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 01 2018
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 1967
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 06:56
I'll just add that I think it's natural for people to go with the probabilities. I do. I only dedicate an hour or so per week to listen to stuff I haven't before.. If I have a 40% success rate with the 70s, and a 1% success rates from the 80s, I'm going to listen to stuff from the 70s, because there's a ton that keeps showing up, stuff being uploaded, etc.
My first album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUimy33lGbo

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
Back to Top
Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2019
Location: Nottingham, U.K
Status: Online
Points: 20919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 07:10
My Top 13 Modern Prog Bands

Abel Ganz
Big Big Train
Edison's Children
Galahad
IQ  Embarrassed
Jadis
Magenta
Marillion
Mostly Autumn
Pallas
Pendragon
Porcupine Tree
Solstice



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - June 16 2022 at 09:49
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 13407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 07:21
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ hey Moshkito, can you post anymore without being rude and insulting someone? Disapprove

Hi,

It's not intended to be rude or insulting, but more of a challenge. I simply find it sad that you guys sit here and posturize me for not looking in the mirror and then you pull off exactly the same thing, but against one person ... because you might not be ... willing, or capable ... of saying things that need to be said in order to try and improve things.

Gotta love all these "trumpistas" ... it's all they know, and continue to show a "progressive/commercial" front to their work.

And it is even worse when those 2 folks are "Admin's" ... which makes me wonder what it really says about a new (and possibly) and different scene, simply because they disagree with it. Oh, really ... like Ian has not stated things worse than I have! But Ian is a God, and I'm a dog, not a person!

Get ce-real!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team

Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 16284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 07:53
Try being polite to people for a change and maybe you'll get less feedback. I see you say its a challenge but give it a go.

I'd suggest you leave political comments out of posts as that is just throwing gas on a fire. 

I love that you assume I'm not exploring new or different scenes. Around 50% of my purchases are new releases and practically zero of those are 'retro'. It's primarily avant, modern experimental jazz, post-punk and whatever else catches my ear. I'm pretty much always exploring.

Considering you are always bashing Admins maybe you shouldn't be surprised when you get a response.

Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 29905
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 08:24
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ hey Moshkito, can you post anymore without being rude and insulting someone? Disapprove

Hi,

It's not intended to be rude or insulting, but more of a challenge. I simply find it sad that you guys sit here and posturize me for not looking in the mirror and then you pull off exactly the same thing, but against one person ... because you might not be ... willing, or capable ... of saying things that need to be said in order to try and improve things.

Gotta love all these "trumpistas" ... it's all they know, and continue to show a "progressive/commercial" front to their work.

And it is even worse when those 2 folks are "Admin's" ... which makes me wonder what it really says about a new (and possibly) and different scene, simply because they disagree with it. Oh, really ... like Ian has not stated things worse than I have! But Ian is a God, and I'm a dog, not a person!

Get ce-real!

so i guess you cannot after all. 

If you dislike this forum so much, I got a very easy solution for you. 
Walk away... leave us mortals alone, go back to your ivory tower... 
Back to Top
progaardvark View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover/Symphonic Teams

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 41131
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 08:54
I like cereal. I practically live in a cereal bowl. 
----------
to meet anyone nose at nose
the walls have hearsay
he go to four feet
take the moon with the teeth
he has a good beak
the stone as roll not heap up not foam
Back to Top
Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2019
Location: Nottingham, U.K
Status: Online
Points: 20919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 09:12
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I like cereal. I practically live in a cereal bowl. 

Hale & Pace as "The Management"....

Hale: "I don't like conflicts."
Pace: "I don't like any kind of breakfast cereal." Tongue


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - June 16 2022 at 09:13
Back to Top
Jared View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 12481
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 09:38
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

My Top 12 Modern Prog Bands

Abel Ganz
Big Big Train
Edison's Children
Galahad
Jadis
Magenta
Marillion
Mostly Autumn
Pallas
Pendragon
Porcupine Tree
Solstice


The four in bold would also make mine, while I like most of the others and 20 years ago, Marillion, Jadis and Pallas would also have been in the list (which would have seen IQ at the top...)
Back to Top
Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2019
Location: Nottingham, U.K
Status: Online
Points: 20919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 09:48
^ Crikey! You just reminded me I forgot to include IQ in my Modern Prog list. I'd better take a Neo Prog IQ test in The Wake of that startling realisation.  Shocked
Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 29905
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 10:04
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ Crikey! You just reminded me I forgot to include IQ in my Modern Prog list. I'd better take a Neo Prog IQ test in The Wake of that startling realisation.  Shocked

so a band that has been around since early 80s is still modern prog? Confused
Back to Top
Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2019
Location: Nottingham, U.K
Status: Online
Points: 20919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 10:20
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ Crikey! You just reminded me I forgot to include IQ in my Modern Prog list. I'd better take a Neo Prog IQ test in The Wake of that startling realisation.  Shocked

so a band that has been around since early 80s is still modern prog? Confused
Yes, mainly because Modern Prog is less controversial than labelling those 13 bands in my list as "Neo Prog". Smile


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - June 16 2022 at 10:21
Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 29905
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 10:27
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ Crikey! You just reminded me I forgot to include IQ in my Modern Prog list. I'd better take a Neo Prog IQ test in The Wake of that startling realisation.  Shocked

so a band that has been around since early 80s is still modern prog? Confused
Yes, mainly because Modern Prog is less controversial than labelling those 13 bands in my list as "Neo Prog". Smile

not what I meant, it's been 40 years since IQ debuted. How is that modern (prog)? 
Back to Top
Gerinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 4757
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 10:37
I like a lot of modern prog, but often when I re-listen to 70s classics I think to myself that somehow there was a difference in inspiration. I hear a lot of good music in modern prog, and much technical proficiency, but I can rarely find gems like those of the 70s. When I listen to things such as Long Distance Runaround, or The Lamia to name only two, I think to myself "how the hell does someone come up with such an original and brilliant song!". 

The cultural environment surely had its very important influence. Then we have the fact that those who have stood the test of time were the best in their craft, and they became stars (if only for a few years), they could live from making music and they spent much time playing together and rehearsing and improvising and recording bits and pieces which later they developed into complete songs. Nowadays many of those who dedicate their musical efforts to prog have their day jobs to live from. They record ideas in their home and email them to the other members who add their contribution, but the magic is not the same.
Back to Top
Zeph View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 16 2014
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 463
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 10:44
Is it when a band made their debut that decide if it's modern or not or when the music is made?

Are newer IQ albums modern?
Back to Top
Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2019
Location: Nottingham, U.K
Status: Online
Points: 20919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 10:56
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ Crikey! You just reminded me I forgot to include IQ in my Modern Prog list. I'd better take a Neo Prog IQ test in The Wake of that startling realisation.  Shocked

so a band that has been around since early 80s is still modern prog? Confused
Yes, mainly because Modern Prog is less controversial than labelling those 13 bands in my list as "Neo Prog". Smile

not what I meant, it's been 40 years since IQ debuted. How is that modern (prog)? 

In a recent trio of polls I divided prog into three main eras.....

Classic Prog Era:- 1967-1979
Neo Prog Era:- 1980-1999
Modern Era:- 2000-2022

Not ideal, but it works for me. Smile


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.386 seconds.

Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.