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Possible Problem With Modern Prog

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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 10:57
Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

Is it when a band made their debut that decide if it's modern or not or when the music is made?

Are newer IQ albums modern?

Well, IQ have been around for a long time so I don't see them as modern. Same with Marillion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:01
I like to define eras in three day increments. A lot can happen in three days. By my calculations, there have been over 20,000 eras since prog began. Let the naming begin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:03
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I like to define eras in three day increments. A lot can happen in three days. By my calculations, there have been over 20,000 eras since prog began. Let the naming begin!

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:32
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I like to define eras in three day increments. A lot can happen in three days. By my calculations, there have been over 20,000 eras since prog began. Let the naming begin!
Ok then. It began with stone age prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:32
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I like to define eras in three day increments. A lot can happen in three days. By my calculations, there have been over 20,000 eras since prog began. Let the naming begin!

Can you imagine the arguments? Was it it recorded on Tuesday or Wednesday?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:32
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

Is it when a band made their debut that decide if it's modern or not or when the music is made?

Are newer IQ albums modern?

Well, IQ have been around for a long time so I don't see them as modern. Same with Marillion. 
Somehow, I don't think we're ever going to agree about the possible problems with the term "Modern Prog". Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:35
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

Is it when a band made their debut that decide if it's modern or not or when the music is made?

Are newer IQ albums modern?

Well, IQ have been around for a long time so I don't see them as modern. Same with Marillion. 
Somehow, I don't think we're ever going to agree about the possible problems with the term "Modern Prog". Tongue

It's not a matter of agreeing. I've already asked you, how is a 40 year old band modern? By this logic, Deep Purple is modern hard rock because they released an album last year. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:36
mod·ern
adjective
  1. relating to the present or recent times as opposed to the remote past.

noun
  1. a person who advocates or practices a departure from traditional styles or values.

Well that's confusing, based on the adjective all prog is modern as its not the 'remote' past. But based on the noun no neo can be modern as it doesn't depart from traditional styles or values.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:37
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I like to define eras in three day increments. A lot can happen in three days. By my calculations, there have been over 20,000 eras since prog began. Let the naming begin!
Ok then. It began with stone age prog.

I like Stone Age Prog. It's much better than Stoner Rock. Tongue

By the way, if Stone Age Prog represents the Classic Era, does that mean Neo Prog is from the Neolithic Era? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archisorcerus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:41
@Nogbad_The_Bad: I think "remote past" can be relative. I'm generally against "going too fast" like inventing "post-rock"ish genres (some even try to create "post"s of the sub-genres that were invented in the 2000s!), but now that people do it, modern can be used, for instance, for the bands that are formed in the current millennium.

Edited by Archisorcerus - June 16 2022 at 11:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 11:43
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

mod·ern
adjective
  1. relating to the present or recent times as opposed to the remote past.

.

At least you have the word "recent" as synonym. It should give people an idea, right? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 12:03
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

Is it when a band made their debut that decide if it's modern or not or when the music is made?

Are newer IQ albums modern?

Well, IQ have been around for a long time so I don't see them as modern. Same with Marillion. 

Agree.....Marillion is newer than classic progressive bands of the 70's but much older than modern prog of the 2000's. They along with many are in that really krapp period of mid 80's to mid 90's for prog....as compared to all of the 70's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 12:39
Originally posted by carioca56 carioca56 wrote:

Most progressive bands of the 70's could support themselves with music alone. With rare exceptions, musicians in current bands have to earn a living by other means. It's hard to produce masterpieces having to divide between working and making music.

Don't forget that the prog bands of the 70's also provided spectacular live concerts!  I am 66 and attended the first CTTE concert tour by Yes, two Relayer shows, TAAB and other tours....all were visually engaging!! Genesis, ELP, Tull and others put on amazing shows!  

It's a pity that there isn't more movie footage of those shows.  


Edited by cstack3 - June 16 2022 at 12:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2022 at 15:00
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by carioca56 carioca56 wrote:

Most progressive bands of the 70's could support themselves with music alone. With rare exceptions, musicians in current bands have to earn a living by other means. It's hard to produce masterpieces having to divide between working and making music.

Don't forget that the prog bands of the 70's also provided spectacular live concerts!  I am 66 and attended the first CTTE concert tour by Yes, two Relayer shows, TAAB and other tours....all were visually engaging!! Genesis, ELP, Tull and others put on amazing shows!  

It's a pity that there isn't more movie footage of those shows.  
This is very true......Now that Genesis is done and even with Rush done, you will not see any of those massive arena shows with huge production anymore within the prog live music scene...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2022 at 07:13
It's hard for me to get past the 70's generally for music. It wasn't just prog, it was incredible era for musical innovation and variety of ideas and bands. The Sex Pistols were just as good as Genesis in their own way , just on an entirely different page (or planet even).

However I like a lot of modern music and what is called 'prog'. It's also quite diverse and interesting but maybe we have seen the era of the classic album come and go. To every one Weather Systems there were ten more in the seventies probably coming out the same week. Nevertheless there are plenty of good/ great modern bands and artists I enjoy a lot. Best just leave it at that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2022 at 07:37
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

...
Don't forget that the prog bands of the 70's also provided spectacular live concerts!  I am 66 and attended the first CTTE concert tour by Yes, two Relayer shows, TAAB and other tours....all were visually engaging!! Genesis, ELP, Tull and others put on amazing shows!  

It's a pity that there isn't more movie footage of those shows.  

Hi,

I think this is a factor having to do with the times and the places. Today, all advertising tells you that Tog Pun is the best action there is, and you are not going to bother watching some band out there in a bar ... because there won't be any action, or excitement ... at least some that was "invented" for you by advertising.

This is the big issue with "progressive" ... most of it MADE IT way BEFORE the great shows, but it was a time for explosive visuals, from 2001, to many other things in film. That we thought it had to "transfer" to the rock world, was a joke which I PERSONALLY had a bad taste n my mouth for, because it signaled that the excitement now was the "show" ... NOT THE MUSIC. 

And that stinks!

Again, the big issue is our lack of complete appreciation and discussion for more modern materials ... because they don't have the spectacular something that existed 50 years ago ... and we need to get back to the "fundamentals" ... is the music and the work good enough?

Then let's talk about it ... 

Nope. We instead discuss something that was a part of that time, when advertising and the media were NOT YET in as much of a controlling atmosphere as they are now ... and what do we do? Nothing to help the new works stand up ... oh excuse me, we talk about some light show, most of which were HORRIBLY MINDLESS AND BADLY DESIGNED, and not quite in sync with the music and the work itself. 

Rock music learned nothing from theater and film, except to be meaningless and put on a show to make you think it was exciting to see SSIK masturbate on stage! ... and we call ourselves "progressive" because of a show ... not the music!

WOW Cry


Edited by moshkito - June 17 2022 at 07:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2022 at 08:14
I really don't know what this thread is about. There's so much excellent modern prog that i can't keep up with it however there are a few things that make it harder to find.

It's already been mentioned that bands in the past before the internet age had record label support. They were allowed time in a professional studio and at least in some cases were promoted which included massive tours. The art was not just the music but the vinyl cover art and gatefold as well as touring.

If there is any problem with modern prog then that would be that there is so much of it that very few bands will ever get the chance to be heard. Most of it these days is DIY and therefore relegated to a mere hobby as opposed to a professional career. This is good in that all artists can exist on an equal playing field and everyone has the chance to produce a great album but bad in that it generates a glut of mediocrity to muddle through.

It is what it is. There's no going back but to write off modern prog because it's not the same as classic prog is ridiculous.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2022 at 08:28
I used to be of the opinion that Neo Prog could never be as good as classic 1970's prog, but that was before I discovered ProgArchives. Now I know better.  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2022 at 09:42
I would love to the neo prog tag jettisoned. It was appropriate for the 80s and 90s, but has since outlived its usefulness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2022 at 09:49
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I would love to the neo prog tag jettisoned. It was appropriate for the 80s and 90s, but has since outlived its usefulness.

Neo-prog refers to a certain sound, it goes beyond the 80s and 90s. Just look at the Polish neo-prog scene in the 2000s for example. Smile
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