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the problem with modern day music

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bartymj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote bartymj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2022 at 04:38
Speaking as someone "young" (still just about the short side of 30). Without the advent of Spotify and YouTube, how on my measly peasant's wage would I make the journey from discovering 'old' Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes etc. to eagerly devouring as many 'new' offers which have nods to Progressive music from as yet unknown bands, while also hunting for obscure early 80s Zeuhl albums and finding hidden gems from nowhere?

And that's not a short attention span - that's just wanting variety. Even some of the greatest prog albums of all time get boring after 20 listens on the trot.

As a poster states above, Prog doesn't have much chance with 15-30 year olds because its not mainstream. That does matter. And its actually those modern streaming services that give Prog a fighting chance with their "if you liked this, you might like this" algorithms.

If you want to sit in the corner, hug your Jethro Tull LP and reminisce about the good old days then that's fair enough, but just remember with the small group of young people that manage to stumble across prog music and like it, that technology you're complaining about is exactly what's keeping the genre going.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2022 at 04:45
Originally posted by Greenmist Greenmist wrote:

Here's another point to bring up, as far as then vs now goes.    It was around the early to mid 00s that downloading purchasable digital audio files started to happen.     One thing thats good about that is, if you only like just 1 or 2 songs from an album, you can pay just for those individual songs and forget about having the whole album.

Before the 00s, you had to buy the entire album just for only 1 or 2 songs, if those songs were never released as singles.   I myself will own up and say "i dont buy uncheap albums as much as i use to, because of this".   But some people say that because of this, bands and artists have become more lazy now.   Bands and artists like The Who, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Elvis Pressely, Queen ect had to work hard to produce good albums all the time, otherwise they knew angry fans would feel cheated, if the album only had just 1 or 2 good songs on, and the rest were just uninteresting fillers.
 

Historical note: Putting out a whole album of worthwhile material itself was a thing that came up around 1966 and was in full bloom, as a trend, in the early seventies. The market was singles oriented and albums full of filler material not only after but also before.


Edited by Lewian - June 20 2022 at 04:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2022 at 05:21
I have a lot of teenage music students. what young people listen to these days is unpredictable and extremely diverse. Lots of young people make their own music too. The list of artists they can choose from is nearly infinite. The number of different genres being invented almost daily is also endless.

RnB and rap music are going through an extremely creative phase. Time changes and chord changes happen in ways that are all brand new and fresh. Very little is predictable or taken for granted.

The middle-aged people hanging out at the apartment pool play a lot of pop crap, but most teenagers I know, who are really into music, are not into any of that. Needless to say, if they are taking music lessons in the first place, then obviously they are going to be into more creative music, but these are the teenagers I know.

Edited by Easy Money - June 20 2022 at 05:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2022 at 06:33
I'm not reactionary, I've just heard about a new band called Jethro Tull... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 10:01
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

This thread shouldn't be in the rog lounge.
I hope an admin would move it to the general music section. 
Why?
It's an interesting point and I wouldn't have seen it anywhere else.
Sadly, most (but by no means all) people under 30 have the attention span of a gnat. Instant gratification or move on seems to be the motto. My stepson (33 but with the brain of a 12 year old) drives me mad in the car by playing the first 2 minutes of a song and then switching to another "because it's got boring". Does my head in.
Prog has to concentrate on the minority who don't conform to this view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 10:13
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

This thread shouldn't be in the rog lounge.
I hope an admin would move it to the general music section. 
Why?
It's an interesting point and I wouldn't have seen it anywhere else.
Sadly, most (but by no means all) people under 30 have the attention span of a gnat. Instant gratification or move on seems to be the motto. My stepson (33 but with the brain of a 12 year old) drives me mad in the car by playing the first 2 minutes of a song and then switching to another "because it's got boring". Does my head in.
Prog has to concentrate on the minority who don't conform to this view.

There was  no mention of progressive music in the original post. It's about music in general. 

I kinda agree with what you say there. People in general don't listen to music out of their comfort zone. I am as much of an outsider today as I was when i was a teenager. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 11:19
the biggest problem with modern music is that it sounds sterile due to the as good as flawless modern recording technique. this is even true for artists I like. when will people understand that the little flaws make the music much more interesting?

also all the instruments and vocals are clearly separated; you can follow each of them individually. this again makes the music sterile.

we only ever record live in the studio, with no overdubs whatever. this is how music should sound


Edited by BaldJean - June 21 2022 at 11:26


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 11:21
Originally posted by DreamTechPlus DreamTechPlus wrote:

The fact that some of you accept, out of hand, that a) commercial music isn't good and b) it could only be enjoyed by those with a 'low attention span' is bad faith criticism which takes away from the agency of people to make their own critical decisions about what they enjoy. 


Commercial music is not good. If it was, I would listen to it. I cannot understand how any critical analysis could be ascribed to modern pop music. Critical of what? Modern pop music is a cultural phenomenon imbued with social significance for it's adherents and is outside the bounds of most artistic or aesthetic criticisms. That's my two cents. Discuss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 11:26
I like a lot of modern pop. Not all modern pop is commercial, either. So it is probably important not to confuse or conflate the pop sound with commercial music. But thereís still a lot of commercial modern pop that is very good.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 13:00
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

we only ever record live in the studio, with no overdubs whatever. this is how music should sound
I'm curious to hear your music. Where is it available?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenmist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 13:30
I feel i need to make another reply in this post,  cause i think some people are misunderstanding something that i said in my original OP.

When i came out and said "what chance has progressive rock got with the youth of today now?", i didnt mean every single solitary Gen Z'er, i meant the lowest common denominators among them, because lets be honest here, progressive rock does not appeal to the lowest common denominator, and especially the lowest common denominators of the Gen Z generation.

Its like i bet the majority of Coldplay fans out there havent even remotely given the song Coloratura a real chance, where as with me, its one of my favourite songs on the Music of the Spheres album.


Edited by Greenmist - June 21 2022 at 13:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 14:00
I donít think anyone is misunderstanding you. More that they are letting you know you are underestimating the youth of today. Also, if youíre going by lowest common denominator, then it doesnít matter if it is today, yesterday or tomorrow - youíre probably right that prog wonít be for them. But that remains unchanged for any point in time, so renders the whole thread pointless.

The simple answer to the question ďwhat chance has progressive rock got with the youth todayĒ is it has a good chance. And, as others have said, most probably a better chance today than it had ten or twenty, and definitely thirty or forty years ago. The sheer availability of music, and the way it is shared between people through Spotify recommendations, YouTube videos, TikTok, whatever other social media the youth of today are using, means they are more likely to come across and enjoy prog.

I donít know a lot of the youth of today, so I can only go from my experience of what my teenage daughter and her friends listen to - and it is pretty much anything and everything. I donít even know how she finds half of what she listens to, and I am completely surprised by a lot of it. She and her friends donít really have any preference by era or genre, and often donít even seem to have any knowledge of the era or genre of what they are listening to. I have heard them listening to music from every decade from the Ď60s to the present day, from pop, rock. metal, hip hop, trip hop, disco, funk, r&b, punk, and well, pretty much (as Iíve already said) anything and everything. They may not know they are listening to what we might call prog at times, and have probably never heard the word, but they certainly listen to some prog in amongst their eclectic mix.

When I was her age, I was limited to what I heard on the radio or tv, and unless youíre going to count the likes of Bowie and Queen as prog, then I never heard any prog on the radio. But my daughter and her friends come upon it surprisingly often. And they like it when they hear it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rottenprogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 14:09
Just because I find pop music basically unlistenable doesn't mean I discount others who enjoy it.  

There's so much good music out there that will never see the light of day on commercial radio because they don't care about the music only advertising revenue. 

Corporate radio basically snuffed out the flame of alternative music in the early 1990s where unique bands were getting airplay regularly and that's why the pop music landscape is so bland and flat these days IMO. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenmist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 14:50
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

But that remains unchanged for any point in time, so renders the whole thread pointless.



I dont quite agree, cause another argument i put forth was, early millennials ,Gen X and baby boomers, had to buy every piece of music they wanted to be able to listen to at will, there was no youtube and spotify for us, so this meant that we were more willing to listen to every music we had in heavy rotation, because we had less of it, and what we did have we spent our hard earned money on, so understandable cause and effect.

I think this shaped our appreciation of music more to be more dedicated listeners because of this.    Yes i agree that the youth of today have more access to more music than ever before and this makes them luckier.   But please see my argument here too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 14:57
I started to get into music around 1980, and then and in the meantime there have always been ways of getting free music, like tapes, self burned CDs and stuff. Somebody would buy something and we'd share it around. And I was able to buy quite a bit of stuff very cheaply on flea markets (many got rid of their prog at the time Shocked) and could sell what I didn't like. OK, it wasn't quite like today, but I didn't really have to break the bank to pile up quite a bit of music.


Edited by Lewian - June 21 2022 at 14:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 15:29
Originally posted by Greenmist Greenmist wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

But that remains unchanged for any point in time, so renders the whole thread pointless.
I dont quite agree, cause another argument i put forth was, early millennials ,Gen X and baby boomers, had to buy every piece of music they wanted to be able to listen to at will, there was no youtube and spotify for us, so this meant that we were more willing to listen to every music we had in heavy rotation, because we had less of it, and what we did have we spent our hard earned money on, so understandable cause and effect.

I think this shaped our appreciation of music more to be more dedicated listeners because of this.    Yes i agree that the youth of today have more access to more music than ever before and this makes them luckier.   But please see my argument here too.
I understand your argument. I simply donít agree with it. As Lewian posted, it was still possible to hear a wide range of music without buying it. We listened to the music that we bought, but also to the music from the collections of our friends, and of our siblings, and of our friendsí siblings, etc. We dubbed each otherís albums onto tape, and we made mistakes.

And then, just as now, not everyone was a dedicated music listener. Sure, there were some, but in my youth (in the 80s and 90s) we were a definite minority. I think you are overstating how many listeners of music then were dedicated listeners, and woefully underestimating how many listeners of music are dedicated listeners in their own way. It may not be the same way, but that doesnít mean they are any less dedicated. Sure there are plenty of passive listeners, for whom music is simply something in the background while they do something else - but you surely canít think that there werenít just as many such listeners in the pre-internet days, because surely there were.

Oh, and I just remembered one more way that the youth of today might discover prog, and that is the almighty Shazam. Hear something on tv in an ad or film or program, or playing while youíre in a shop or restaurant, and want to know what it is? Shazam it. Instant discovery of something new to listen to. And prog songs definitely do get played in the soundtracks for tv programs and films.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 16:45
The problem I have with modern prog is that instrumentalists don't seem to have the chops of the originators! 

Who is today's Robert Fripp?  (well, Bob Fripp of course, but still)....or Chick Corea?  Or Chris Squire?  

Mind you, there are some excellent players out there, but they seem to be more technicians than artists....John Petrucci of Dream Theater comes to mind.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 17:02
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Who is today's Robert Fripp? †(well, Bob Fripp of course, but still)....or Chick Corea? †Or Chris Squire?


Today's Fripp



Today's Chick.



Today's Chris

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote freyacat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 20:29
I think what you're saying is that the problem isn't with music today, but with ourselves and the quality of our attention.

It takes an almost spiritual discipline to just listen to music, and not succumb to distraction from other electronic media at the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2022 at 20:54
^  good observation 
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