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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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Points: 10261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2022 at 03:42
There are several YouTube channels we follow; one is the channel of Hayley Alexis, a US-citizen that has been living in Germany for a few years now (so basically the same as Jean has done with the difference that Jean chose to become a German citizen).

I think everyone should watch this video where she speaks about the different concepts of "freedom" in the USA and in Germany. We couldn't have put it any better than her.


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Very enlightening Friede.Thanks for posting this.
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I already said this in the "Supreme Court picking up Moore v. Harper" thread that Jean started: These clowns will stop at nothing. They will even deny women the right to vote despite of the 19th amendment (which was passed in 1919 and ratified in 1920). They will point out that "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex" does not say "gender" but "sex" and will claim that it means "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of having had sex".
Maybe, but with Liz Cheney coming on so strongly, her remarkable speech yesterday, and beginning to sound as much like Hillary Clinton as Cheney's father, that won't happen if she has anything to say about it --
The problem is that with the way the Supreme Court currently misuses its function it won't matter at all what she has to say about it. They want to bring the constitution back to "what the founding fathers meant".

It does matter.   It all matters.   "The way the Supreme Court currently misuses its function" is exactly what the Right were saying ten years ago.   It's not all about what you & I want, it's about balancing the needs of the People with the requirements of the Constitution.   Right now for progressive minded people, it's a bad time.

Complaining about America and conversely how enlightened Germany is is getting old.   Please look inward as Americans are right now, tend to the affairs of Deutschland, and stop throwing stones. 




Edited by Atavachron - July 03 2022 at 17:20
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I already said this in the "Supreme Court picking up Moore v. Harper" thread that Jean started: These clowns will stop at nothing. They will even deny women the right to vote despite of the 19th amendment (which was passed in 1919 and ratified in 1920). They will point out that "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex" does not say "gender" but "sex" and will claim that it means "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of having had sex".
Maybe, but with Liz Cheney coming on so strongly, her remarkable speech yesterday, and beginning to sound as much like Hillary Clinton as Cheney's father, that won't happen if she has anything to say about it --
The problem is that with the way the Supreme Court currently misuses its function it won't matter at all what she has to say about it. They want to bring the constitution back to "what the founding fathers meant".

It does matter.   It all matters.   "The way the Supreme Court currently misuses its function" is exactly what the Right were saying ten years ago.   It's not all about what you & I want, it's about balancing the needs of the People with the requirements of the Constitution.   Right now for progressive minded people, it's a bad time.

Complaining about America and conversely how enlightened Germany is is getting old.   Please look inward as Americans are right now, tend to the affairs of Deutschland, and stop throwing stones. 


I never said anything about "how enlightened Germany is"; that is just a projection of yours. And some of the decisions of the Supreme Court have consequences for the whole world, for example the recent SC ruling on the EPA, so I am sorry; I can't look inward right now.

And before you say that this decision was correct, that the EPA has no business to interfere with the emissions of carbon dioxide and that this should be left to Congress, as the SC claimed, this is what https://www.usa.gov, the official site of the US-government, says about the EPA; I will put the important part in capital letters for you: "The Environmental Protection Agency protects people and the environment from significant health risks, sponsors and conducts research, AND DEVELOPS AND ENFORCES ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS".


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I find that certain European countries like Germany have an underlying socialist bent which lends itself to the "community first" mindset. This is at odds with the American capitalist self made man individualist mindset. Both have thier pros and cons.

Edited by SteveG - July 03 2022 at 18:14
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find that certain European countries like Germany have an underlying socialist bent which lends itself to the "community first" mindset. This is at odds with the American capitalist self made man individualist mindset. Both have thier pros and cons.

Probably a lot more cons in the U.S., at least in Washington. 
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find that certain European countries like Germany have an underlying socialist bent which lends itself to the "community first" mindset. This is at odds with the American capitalist self made man individualist mindset. Both have thier pros and cons.

I'm curious. what would you consider to be some of the pros and cons?


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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find that certain European countries like Germany have an underlying socialist bent which lends itself to the "community first" mindset. This is at odds with the American capitalist self made man individualist mindset. Both have thier pros and cons.

I'm curious. what would you consider to be some of the pros and cons?
I should think these truths would be self evident.   
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find that certain European countries like Germany have an underlying socialist bent which lends itself to the "community first" mindset. This is at odds with the American capitalist self made man individualist mindset. Both have thier pros and cons.

I'm curious. what would you consider to be some of the pros and cons?
I should think these truths would be self evident.   

I doubt it, and you would probably be very surprised by some I could name. how about the quality of meat, for example? any producer of meat of the quality in the USA would have his production facilities closed by the BMEL ("BundesMinisterium für Ernährung und Landwirtschaft" meaning "Federal Department for Nutrition and Agriculture", the German equivalent of the FDA) and would have to face trial. the meat would not even be considered to be good enough for cats and dogs because in Germany the quality standards for cat and dog food are the same as for human food.

not all is perfect, of course; Germany has had some food scandals recently, but the BMEL acted accordingly.

the quality of meat at our restaurant, by the way, is even better because we use only organic food for our meals


Edited by BaldJean - July 05 2022 at 03:44


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Just to chime in here: abortion is permitted in India up to 20 weeks on the advice one doctor and up to 24 weeks on the advice of two doctors.  It can be obtained for special categories - minors, sexual abuse survivors or disabled women - beyond 24 weeks if permitted by a State Medical Board.  

Just putting this out there because it's not about the conservative trope of a few 'Left Coast' liberals comparing US to Europe.  On abortion, US is now so far to the Right it's difficult to fathom (and mind you, we have had a very right wing govt ourselves since 2014). US is now officially 'third world' on one legal criterion so my compliments to American exceptionalists, I guess?

From the outside looking in, it's very clear that pro-life is just a mask to hide a largely if not wholly religious reason for blocking abortion.  Because abortion was not historically defined as a crime in dharmic (as opposed to abrahamic )religions and is therefore not at all an emotive issue in a country as intensely religious as India. And once you accept that, the question becomes what happens to the pretense of separating religion and state?  Does that really hold anymore or does it, as Clarence Thomas predicts, merely anticipate the banning of homosexual marriages or even homosexual unions generally going forward?  After all, if the 'Federalists' have somehow convinced themselves that the Framers wanted a Christian Republic and not a secular one, that would be the logical conclusion.  

And if that is not the case according to pro-lifers and this is not a stepping stone to establishing a Christian Republic, why abortion cannot be a generalized right available with certain restrictions becomes the question.  I accept that there should be strong discouragement of aborting a fetus in the third trimester but if states are allowed to make up the laws and such laws can completely ban abortion, you are taking away a right and not just from 'women' but from families in general. There could be many cases where both husband and wife do not want to have the baby now and if they have decided well in time, what's the problem?  Why must they be compelled to carry a fetus to term in each and every case?  Saying that it has simply gone back to the states does not address the question of how states can be prevented from entirely taking away the right to an abortion.  Er, which is what Roe v Wade had originally established?  So even if the reasoning in the judgment was somehow faulty, the question of whether or not a right to abortion should exist at minimum in every state does not seem to have been examined, perhaps intentionally?


Edited by rogerthat - July 05 2022 at 03:24
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find that certain European countries like Germany have an underlying socialist bent which lends itself to the "community first" mindset. This is at odds with the American capitalist self made man individualist mindset. Both have thier pros and cons.

I'm curious. what would you consider to be some of the pros and cons?
I should think these truths would be self evident.   

I doubt it, and you would probably be very surprised by some I could name. how about the quality of meat, for example? any producer of meat of the quality in the USA would have his production facilities closed by the BMEL ("BundesMinisterium für Ernährung und Landwirtschaft" meaning "Federal Department for Nutrition and Agriculture", the German equivalent of the FDA) and would have to face trial. the meat would not even be considered to be good enough for cats and dogs because in Germany the quality standards for cat and dog food are the same as for human food.

not all is perfect, of course; Germany has had some food scandals recently, but the BMEL acted accordingly.

the quality of meat at our restaurant, by the way, is even better because we use only organic food for our meals
I'm not talking about regulations but the mindsets of citizens. America does not the richest entrepreneurs for no reason. This is not from a socialist mindset but one of self sufficiency and putting the self first. I'd rather live in the US than Germany just for this reason alone. In fact, I can't think of any reasons to live in Germany. 
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find that certain European countries like Germany have an underlying socialist bent which lends itself to the "community first" mindset. This is at odds with the American capitalist self made man individualist mindset. Both have thier pros and cons.

I'm curious. what would you consider to be some of the pros and cons?
I should think these truths would be self evident.   

I doubt it, and you would probably be very surprised by some I could name. how about the quality of meat, for example? any producer of meat of the quality in the USA would have his production facilities closed by the BMEL ("BundesMinisterium für Ernährung und Landwirtschaft" meaning "Federal Department for Nutrition and Agriculture", the German equivalent of the FDA) and would have to face trial. the meat would not even be considered to be good enough for cats and dogs because in Germany the quality standards for cat and dog food are the same as for human food.

not all is perfect, of course; Germany has had some food scandals recently, but the BMEL acted accordingly.

the quality of meat at our restaurant, by the way, is even better because we use only organic food for our meals
I'm not talking about regulations but the mindsets of citizens. America does not the richest entrepreneurs for no reason. This is not from a socialist mindset but one of self sufficiency and putting the self first. I'd rather live in the US than Germany just for this reason alone. In fact, I can't think of any reasons to live in Germany. 

have you ever been to Germany? because in the USA there are so many false things that are being told about Germany. I am certain you would be extremely shocked (in a positive way) if you came here; I certainly was. and you would suddenly discover many reasons why you would want to live in Germany. you might even not want to go back (this is actually an experience many people who are originally from the USA made; there are countless videos about this on YouTube). I certainly wouldn't.

but what I said about the meat is actually part of the mindset, part of the "me! me! me!" culture that is prevalent in the USA


Edited by BaldJean - July 05 2022 at 06:36


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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find that certain European countries like Germany have an underlying socialist bent which lends itself to the "community first" mindset. This is at odds with the American capitalist self made man individualist mindset. Both have thier pros and cons.

I'm curious. what would you consider to be some of the pros and cons?
I should think these truths would be self evident.   

I doubt it, and you would probably be very surprised by some I could name. how about the quality of meat, for example? any producer of meat of the quality in the USA would have his production facilities closed by the BMEL ("BundesMinisterium für Ernährung und Landwirtschaft" meaning "Federal Department for Nutrition and Agriculture", the German equivalent of the FDA) and would have to face trial. the meat would not even be considered to be good enough for cats and dogs because in Germany the quality standards for cat and dog food are the same as for human food.

not all is perfect, of course; Germany has had some food scandals recently, but the BMEL acted accordingly.

the quality of meat at our restaurant, by the way, is even better because we use only organic food for our meals
I'm not talking about regulations but the mindsets of citizens. America does not the richest entrepreneurs for no reason. This is not from a socialist mindset but one of self sufficiency and putting the self first. I'd rather live in the US than Germany just for this reason alone. In fact, I can't think of any reasons to live in Germany. 

have you ever been to Germany? because in the USA there are so many false things that are being told about Germany. I am certain you would be extremely shocked (in a positive way) if you came here; I certainly was. and you would suddenly discover many reasons why you would want to live in Germany. you might even not want to go back (this is actually an experience many people who are originally from the USA made; there are countless videos about this on YouTube). I certainly wouldn't

but what I said about the meat is actually part of the mindset.
Yes, I have been to Germany, France, Italy, etc. I'm way too Americanized to ever be comfortable there and I have too much love for America, even with all it's faults, to ever want to live anywhere else. 

Edited by SteveG - July 05 2022 at 06:31
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I just saw that video, thanks.. I have been to Germany six times, and she basically said everything I thought she would say. I've also been to Australia (6 months, and again for 3 months) and preferred those kinds of systems, but it's very difficult to compare. The US is not starting from scratch. There are established norms (disorder), etc..

This system makes people selfish. The US ignores class and focuses on social issues, because it's misleading - it's a way to distract Americans. You can't legislate kindness and understanding. Our laws are not applied equally. If you have money, you can be like Dick Cheney or any other President. 

To add something to the conversation above... My 4th, 5th, and 6th trip overseas were one-way. I was willing to relocate anywhere. But I was born in the US, so besides the immigration/citizenship laws, I'll never have equal footing as a native. Employers have probably looked at me as transient, and one benefit about living in the US is that it's so cheap, but you have to be on guard. I've had a loaded gun pointed at my head in my front yard. There's no other option, though. This might be why people vote ... ANYONE for ANYTHING -- desperation and frustration.


Edited by MortSahlFan - July 05 2022 at 13:54
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