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What did you think "progressive rock" meant?

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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2022 at 10:31
Progressive Rock = Great music that you won't see featured on any radio station playlist. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2022 at 10:52
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Progressive Rock = Great music that you won't see featured on any radio station playlist. Confused

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2022 at 11:55
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Progressive Rock = Great music that you won't see featured on any radio station playlist. Confused

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2022 at 13:54
I think I was annoyed because if I remember it correctly, I heard it in the early eighties used for bands I already loved, and they said something to the effect that this music is not cool and never was, and we had all been cheated. or whatever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RockHound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2022 at 14:15
All rocks are forward thinking-new ones are continuously being made, deformed, and recycled.
I remember art rock being used a lot in the early days, and the word progressive apparently became common around the time of ELPís appearance at California Jam. It was definitely used most commonly in reference to Tull, Genesis, ELP, and Yes in those heady days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2022 at 16:34
I grew up in the 1970s in a small, Ontario, Canada town; it wasn't a hotbed for obscure or off the beaten track progressive rock, but I first heard and saw a "progressive rock" group in 1974 on tv-it was supergroup ELP. I remember kids at school using the term progressive rock at the time, and it kind of meant for me, rock music that was cerebral and complex and something beyond the regular music you would hear on the AM radio. Of course, it is really way more than just that, but I was a late bloomer when it came to serious listening to progressive rock. I was just superficially aware of it in the 1970s and did not collect and listen to it at that time; It wasn't until 1985, when a friend lent me an album called Illusions On A Double Dimple by a group called Triumvirat that was unknown to me, and right then when I heard it, I knew I had to delve much further into the genre, as that Triumvirat record instantly epitomised for me what was really progressive rock, and was definitely "underground" and "off the beaten track" in a very special way.
               
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2022 at 18:02
I donít remember, I donít recall. I have no memory of anything at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2022 at 03:24
I think I first heard the term in a rock/metal magazine in the early 80's, around the time when Marillion had released Script.

I don't think the term meant much to me, beyond being used to define bands who wrote and performed longer songs than hard rock/metal bands, and invariably used keyboards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2022 at 04:07
I can speak as one of those really old farts who first used the word "progressive" to describe music, though the term "progressive rock" maybe came later.
We described music as progressive if it eschewed the idea of the 3 minute single and was less commercially focussed, using more sophisticated and advanced levels of musicianship and developing complex ideas through longer songs. The main early bands we included in the category were Traffic, The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, King Crimson, Colosseum and Barclay James Harvest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2022 at 06:40
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Progressive Rock = Great music that you won't see featured on any radio station playlist. Confused

Hi,

You'll have to excuse me this intrusion, but Guy Guden couldn't careless if it was progressive or porkgressive ... and played it all starting in 1974, in a COMMERCIAL RADIO STATION (FM) ... that ended up being the number one station in the area for a long time. AND, I have shows to prove it ... over the past year I sent Guy over 300 hours of his shows up to 1981 when I left the area. The listing alone in those is not only insane, makes PA look really poor for the awful listening habits we tend to preach about ... we don't even discuss music ... we discuss one small nothing element of it!

You won't see it today, that's for sure, mostly as those stations are OWNED by the corporate structure that America has become. The internet has a lot of podcasts, but in so many ways this is like listening to your public station in town and the music caters to a "style" a lot more than it does the music itself. 

I tried it here in Portland, and when I got there the first question the lady asked me, was "what kind of music are you going to play?" (despite an application that she obviously did not bother looking at!) ... and I looked at her, if you knew and cared about music you would never ask that question! And walked out! Today, 25 years later, the station does play a couple of "different things" but they are all buried under the awful cultural labels for everything. It's like the music doesn't matter ... the label does!


Edited by moshkito - July 06 2022 at 06:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2022 at 07:04
In the late 60s to early 70s, late night FM DJs in Dallas would play album sides or really long songs that would blend into each other for 20 or 30 minutes of continuous music. Such music was called underground rock or progressive rock. The term progressive meant not geared toward top 40 playlists.

Edited by Easy Money - July 06 2022 at 07:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2022 at 14:11
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I have no recollection of what I thought 47 years ago.

I have no recollection of what I thought 4.7 hours ago! Big smile
I can remember very well what I thought 55 years ago.
But I can go upstairs and 55 seconds later I can't remember why the hell I went up the stairs!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 08:30
I had used the term art rock up until then. "Progressive rock" snuck up on me, and I thought it a tad precious (and pompous). I knew what it meant, but it seemed as if someone had gone a little overboard in its inception. I use it, but warily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stressed Cheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 08:55

When I first heard the term "Progressive Rock" I thought to myself, "That is probably a broad genre of rock music[8] that developed in the United Kingdom and United States throughout the mid-to late 1960s, peaking in the early 1970s. Initially termed "progressive pop", the style was an outgrowth of psychedelic bands who abandoned standard pop traditions in favour of instrumentation and compositional techniques more frequently associated with jazzfolk, or classical music. Additional elements contributed to its "progressive" label: lyrics were more poetic, technology was harnessed for new sounds, music approached the condition of "art", and the studio, rather than the stage, became the focus of musical activity, which often involved creating music for listening rather than dancing.

Progressive rock is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, involving a continuous move between formalism and eclecticism. Due to its historical reception, the scope of progressive rock is sometimes limited to a stereotype of long solos, long albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill. While the genre is often cited for its merging of high culture and low culture, few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree, and only a handful of groups, such as Emerson, Lake & Palmer, purposely emulated or referenced classical music.

The genre coincided with the mid-1960s economic boom that allowed record labels to allocate more creative control to their artists, as well as the new journalistic division between "pop" and "rock" that lent generic significance to both terms. It saw a high level of popularity in the early-to-mid-1970s, but faded soon after. Conventional wisdom holds that the rise of punk rock caused this, but several more factors contributed to the decline.[9] Music critics, who often labelled the concepts as "pretentious" and the sounds as "pompous" and "overblown", tended to be hostile towards the genre or to completely ignore it.[10] After the late 1970s, progressive rock fragmented in numerous forms. Some bands achieved commercial success well into the 1980s (albeit with changed lineups and more compact song structures) or crossed into symphonic poparena rock, or new wave.

Early groups who exhibited progressive features are retroactively described as "proto-prog". The Canterbury scene, originating in the late 1960s, denotes a subset of progressive rock bands who emphasised the use of wind instruments, complex chord changes and long improvisations. Rock in Opposition, from the late 1970s, was more avant-garde, and when combined with the Canterbury style, created avant-prog. In the 1980s, a new subgenre, neo-progressive rock, enjoyed some commercial success, although it was also accused of being derivative and lacking in innovation. Post-progressive draws upon newer developments in popular music and the avant-garde since the mid-1970s."


But was just my first guess based on the name though.



Edited by Stressed Cheese - July 07 2022 at 10:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 09:50
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

When I first heard the term "Progressive Rock" I though to myself, "That is probably a broad genre of rock music[8] that developed in the United Kingdom and United States throughout the mid-to late 1960s, peaking in the early 1970s. Initially termed "progressive pop", the style was an outgrowth of psychedelic bands who abandoned standard pop traditions in favour of instrumentation and compositional techniques more frequently associated with jazzfolk, or classical music. Additional elements contributed to its "progressive" label: lyrics were more poetic, technology was harnessed for new sounds, music approached the condition of "art", and the studio, rather than the stage, became the focus of musical activity, which often involved creating music for listening rather than dancing.

Progressive rock is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, involving a continuous move between formalism and eclecticism. Due to its historical reception, the scope of progressive rock is sometimes limited to a stereotype of long solos, long albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill. While the genre is often cited for its merging of high culture and low culture, few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree, and only a handful of groups, such as Emerson, Lake & Palmer, purposely emulated or referenced classical music.

The genre coincided with the mid-1960s economic boom that allowed record labels to allocate more creative control to their artists, as well as the new journalistic division between "pop" and "rock" that lent generic significance to both terms. It saw a high level of popularity in the early-to-mid-1970s, but faded soon after. Conventional wisdom holds that the rise of punk rock caused this, but several more factors contributed to the decline.[9] Music critics, who often labelled the concepts as "pretentious" and the sounds as "pompous" and "overblown", tended to be hostile towards the genre or to completely ignore it.[10] After the late 1970s, progressive rock fragmented in numerous forms. Some bands achieved commercial success well into the 1980s (albeit with changed lineups and more compact song structures) or crossed into symphonic poparena rock, or new wave.

Early groups who exhibited progressive features are retroactively described as "proto-prog". The Canterbury scene, originating in the late 1960s, denotes a subset of progressive rock bands who emphasised the use of wind instruments, complex chord changes and long improvisations. Rock in Opposition, from the late 1970s, was more avant-garde, and when combined with the Canterbury style, created avant-prog. In the 1980s, a new subgenre, neo-progressive rock, enjoyed some commercial success, although it was also accused of being derivative and lacking in innovation. Post-progressive draws upon newer developments in popular music and the avant-garde since the mid-1970s."


But was just my first guess based on the name though.

Wow. I just thought it meant left wing political songs. Man, was I not thinking.

Edited by SteveG - July 07 2022 at 09:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 10:19
Like most people I just don't remember. I know I liked ELP (for Keith Emerson mainly) and someone at school told me I should check out Yes . I wasn't all that impressed but to be fair Tormato was not the best starting point. I've said many times though that 'prog' didn't include as many bands then that we like to think it did now. It seemed that mainly ELP, Genesis and Yes were part of this. Floyd were far too big to be lumped in with anyone else and Rush were some sort of arty heavy rock metal but not 'Prog'. Tull not sure about and I don't remember anyone caring that much about the likes of Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator to label them anything. Hawkwind on the other hand were massively popular in that teenage age group but no one called them prog. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 10:39
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

...

of instrumentation and compositional techniques more frequently associated with jazzfolk, or classical music. Additional elements contributed to its "progressive" label: lyrics were more poetic, technology was harnessed for new sounds, music approached the condition of "art", and the studio, rather than the stage, became the focus of musical activity, which often involved creating music for listening rather than dancing.

...


Hi,

(welcome btw, if you have not been welcomed!)


I think of this, a lot more, as a compliment to the arts in other areas, than I do "rock music" that continued its fascination (actually control by record companies) to a top this or that ... a process that is still used today, specially here on PA, where the few GODS stand up and everyone else pays for the churches!

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

...

Progressive rock is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, involving a continuous move between formalism and eclecticism. Due to its historical reception, the scope of progressive rock is sometimes limited to a stereotype of long solos, long albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill. While the genre is often cited for its merging of high culture and low culture, few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree, and only a handful of groups, such as Emerson, Lake & Palmer, purposely emulated or referenced classical music.

...

The sad side of all this, for me, was that as the 70's went on people started believing the media and when punk came around, it was like all this was worthless, and didn't mean anything. The very "literary" (for lack of a better term) ideas made the whole of the works a lot more interesting than the constantly repetitive formats all over the top this and that.

I also think that the appreciation for using other folks in other mediums like various poets, and then showcasing talent that was also more poetic, or literary, was something that helped the whole of "progressive" music, whereas today, the bad example is how many bands apply to be included because they are "progressive this or that" and not exactly because of the quality or the elevation of their music into an artistic design, something new, and not just like every other band out there, that supposedly sells to the public in general.

Today, visible here on PA, there is a lot of respect for Roy Harper (as an example) and many of the better known "poets" of the time, but even in those days, folks like Leonard Cohen, and many others were laughed at and thought of as pretentious. At least, you know they were HONEST about what they did and mattered to them and they ENDURED like many rock bands couldn't because they were not doing anything worth discussing as artistic matters ... it all was just a song ... not a poem, and not anything else.

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

...

The Canterbury scene, originating in the late 1960s, denotes a subset of progressive rock bands who emphasised the use of wind instruments, complex chord changes and long improvisations.

...

 

Don't forget how many of these came from various colleges and universities and how many of these folks are teaching today! "Canterbury" was an artistic scene, and had a lot of its start in the early days with Robert Wyatt, Kevin Ayers, Daevid Allen and several other folks living in a place that had Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Ginsberg coming and going and participating in various events that also included many folks involved in film, and other arts ... we can not forget that Canterbury, in many ways, was already apart from "rock music" and stuck to their artistic leanings. In many ways, both Daevid Allen and Gilly Smith became by very far some of the best "beat poets", specially when you hear her read in SF in 1999 of an endless ream of computer paper and making it rhyme for the longest time with a band behind her. Like Daevid, she was not afraid of making a poem out of "nothing".

I have always been one to say that "progressive music" needed to be "elevated" beyond just a song, into an art form ... but here, I am not sure that any one thinks of Ian Anderson and Jethro Tull as an "artist" ... just one of the greats and one of the top "progressive' choices, with not discussion as to what made it so whatsoever. It became a preference, and I'm not sure that a preference makes it an art form of the piece of work.



Edited by moshkito - July 07 2022 at 10:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stressed Cheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 15:39
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

(welcome btw, if you have not been welcomed!)

Thanks!

I do hope you realize I was jokingly copy-pasting the wikipedia description of Progressive Rock in that post Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 16:17
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

I do hope you realize I was jokingly copy-pasting the wikipedia description of Progressive Rock in that post†Tongue</span>

You asked for it, you got it.

Edited by SteveG - July 07 2022 at 16:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 18:12
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

(welcome btw, if you have not been welcomed!)

Thanks!

I do hope you realize I was jokingly copy-pasting the wikipedia description of Progressive Rock in that post Tongue


Hi,

I'm not a great fan of the Wiki stuff and (in general) too much of their material is not clean, and has no intelligence whatsoever, as if it was written by folks that only knew some rock music, never went to a theater, never went to see a film other than the generic top ten crap that is not even considered artistic, although the media advertising for it, makes it seem like the latest action cartoon is the best thing since sliced bread!

However, I come from a high level literary family, so it is very easy for me to see, and think that the artistic side is more important than a mere hit song ... although I would say that a lot of the academic stuff around it is just as bad as the "fandom" around the advertisements of the latest something or other ... and no one seems to realize how the media only talks about the things they support AND OWN ... in order to prevent the "independents" from making headway ... and in many ways this is the big was on the Internet, that I can only hope that the huge corporate cartels do not eventually buy everything for ten cents ... and turn the whole thing into just another TV set, or lousy radio station!

In this sense, we don't realize much what "progressive" really meant at the time, and how those people created so much work ... but without a place for it to live and be "seen" and "heard", it is rather difficult. 

I, originally, joined the PA folks because I thought this would be a great place for discussing new things ... and in the past many years it has gotten worse with too many threads about the top this or that, and yet another fan asking which guitarist is best of his list of 5 because he/she does not hear anything else! It is sad, in so many ways, and a total regression of what the term "progressive" really meant ... but I think that folks got too stoned, and drunk ... to even know the difference ... something stupid like that!
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