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Plans on PA for becoming an all-music site?

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Mormegil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mormegil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 09:21
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Mormegil Mormegil wrote:

Man, I hope not. I like my prog undiluted.

Well then you probably don't like this site too much. On here there's jazz rock fusion, progressive electronic, raga, psychedelic, crossover, not to mention three kinds of prog metal, etc.

You probably assume too much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 09:46
Originally posted by Mormegil Mormegil wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Mormegil Mormegil wrote:

Man, I hope not. I like my prog undiluted.

Well then you probably don't like this site too much. On here there's jazz rock fusion, progressive electronic, raga, psychedelic, crossover, not to mention three kinds of prog metal, etc.

You probably assume too much.

Probably! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mormegil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 09:49
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Mormegil Mormegil wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Mormegil Mormegil wrote:

Man, I hope not. I like my prog undiluted.

Well then you probably don't like this site too much. On here there's jazz rock fusion, progressive electronic, raga, psychedelic, crossover, not to mention three kinds of prog metal, etc.

You probably assume too much.

Probably! LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 11:10
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

I think OP was being sarcastic. And absolutely, that's true. I also think there are tons of not-even-close-to-being-prog bands in the archives, mostly labeled as "crossover prog" or "progressive electronic". :)


I wish I had your faith, but I am quite confident that David was not at all being sarcastic. His posts have time and time again shown his desire for a very narrowly defined idea of prog, and his bewilderment at many bands and artists already in PA.

As for the idea of not-even-close-to-being-prog, that is entirely subjective, and has been argued ad infinitum. PA’s idea of what is or is not prog is much wider than that of many who write in this forum, while simultaneously being much narrower than many people who enjoy and discuss prog outside PA. It is never going to be able to please all the people all the time, and it doesn’t set out to do that. If that makes people like David sad, or mad, so be it.

In the UK, I have definitely seen much dismissal and/or joking about PA, because of what it doesn’t consider to be prog. Bands and artists written about in Prog magazine, and in UK-based prog FB pages and groups; who are reviewed on UK-based prog websites, and who frequently perform at UK prog festivals (and whose headline and/or support gigs are advertised as prog) do not feature in PA. Whether or not I think they are prog, and whether or not PA think they are prog is somewhat irrelevant, for their UK audience.

I’m sure there are similar cases throughout the world. Certainly a great deal of the modern Aussie and Kiwi prog scene would not be likely to be prog “enough” for PA. But that doesn’t stop their audiences from thinking of them as prog, nor the bands themselves, nor the way they are advertised and promoted. A recent “Progressive Alliance” tour of Aotearoa had four main bands, plus support. Only one of the bands is in PA (suggested by me, as I thought they would be prog “enough”), and I doubt any of the others would make it in. Similarly, I’ve seen plenty of Aussie bands been suggested, and rejected, as not prog “enough”. That’s fine. PA has to draw the line somewhere, or else it will be “all music”.

But to think it is already “all music” is laughable. Outside PA, the site is almost renowned for its “snobbery” and “guardianship”, and narrow view of what is or isn’t prog. It’s really only within these walls, that people think that PA has too broad a definition of prog. We are far from being an “all music” site, and it is highly unlikely that PA will ever even come close to that.

If anyone thinks PA os already “all music”, or is headed that way, then that says far more about them and their own ideas on what is or is not prog, than it does about the site.


As much as the PA is ridiculed for being "snobs," it didn't even remotely compare to the elitism that the MA exhibits. That's part of the reason I switched from there to here. I couldn't stand how uptight and snobby they were over at the Metal Archives. At least people here are mature (albeit on average physically older) and relatively open-minded.

Although I do feel the members here mocked me on my Dave Brubeck post, which does annoy me a little, but whatever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 11:58
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I wish I had your faith, but I am quite confident that David was not at all being sarcastic. His posts have time and time again shown his desire for a very narrowly defined idea of prog, and his bewilderment at many bands and artists already in PA.

This has become a bit more true since I a week ago wrote this post in my blog "How to define and classify Progressive Rock?":

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

I can tell that by now I'm in doubt about what to find being the best use of the term Progressive Rock, and I may become in favour of the double way you use, but which would be though:

1. A less including one, much similar to RYM's, which I guess is best corresponding to the historically and today mostly used one, so it can be called "Progressive Rock proper".
2. A more including one, and the way I've suggested to define Progressive Rock in my article here, which uses the term Prog as a meta-genre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 12:53
^ Maybe you should abandon the idea that there is a "best" use of the term progressive rock, because all that is very subjective. You will have less worries, then. So many people, so many ideas about prog and about music in general. And I guess that 99% (but maybe I'm underestimating) of the forumers here on PA are not very much interested in a definition of prog, but are here to talk and exchange about music.
I wouldn't be worried either by prog lists that have some non-prog artists in it: it is just a way to say that there is more good music outside of the prog realm. Sometimes this is done as a joke, sometimes just to show others that a non prog artist/band might be interesting, sometimes it is to provoke reactions/debate. Nothing wrong with that, on the contrary: it nourishes the discussions.
It is only when you let definitions dictate your music appreciation that things get awry...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 17:30
Pffft! Like prog is even music. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 17:57

Is this thread the result of what happens when a petulant control freak doesn't get the the acknowledgment or validation they think they deserve?

Instead of trying to dictate the direction that this site and this forum might take, I suggest the OP start their own site. Then they can make all the rules and stipulations they like without fear of contradiction. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 03:46
PA is not going to narrow the definitions of what prog is. It's going to extend the understanding of what prog is as it keeps developing. 

I'm constantly challenged on what neo-prog (and prog in general) is and I do not always agree on the neo additions but it's a way to allow for prog to evolve.

For instance, over time crossover prog has embraced a variety of music that really makes me think there's room for new prog genres here.


Edited by earlyprog - August 05 2022 at 03:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 07:01
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

^ Maybe you should abandon the idea that there is a "best" use of the term progressive rock, because all that is very subjective. You will have less worries, then. So many people, so many ideas about prog and about music in general. And I guess that 99% (but maybe I'm underestimating) of the forumers here on PA are not very much interested in a definition of prog, but are here to talk and exchange about music.
I wouldn't be worried either by prog lists that have some non-prog artists in it: it is just a way to say that there is more good music outside of the prog realm. Sometimes this is done as a joke, sometimes just to show others that a non prog artist/band might be interesting, sometimes it is to provoke reactions/debate. Nothing wrong with that, on the contrary: it nourishes the discussions.
It is only when you let definitions dictate your music appreciation that things get awry...

Thank you very much for this constructive post of yours, suitkees. Even I have another understanding of maybe the whole phenomenon of using terms, I find several things in your post good for consideration.

I can surely recommend this post as a good example of constructive discussion. Clap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rushaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 07:02
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

This has become a bit more true since I a week ago wrote this post in my blog "How to define and classify Progressive Rock?":



my hell man... do you ever give this stuff a break?  i leave for a while and come back and again you are trying to define and classify.  ffs!!! get over it and move on.  enjoy the ride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 07:44
Originally posted by rushaholic rushaholic wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

This has become a bit more true since I a week ago wrote this post in my blog "How to define and classify Progressive Rock?":



my hell man... do you ever give this stuff a break?  i leave for a while and come back and again you are trying to define and classify.  ffs!!! get over it and move on.  enjoy the ride.


Maybe this is how he personally enjoys the ride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 11:04
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Maybe this is how he personally enjoys the ride.

You've got a point there, Ian - different strokes for different folks. Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RockHound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 11:57
I, for one, think PA should stick to prog. But I have a hound dog here who loves country music-he just starts bobbing and bopping every time he hears it. He's getting really fed up with my unapologetic progginess, so we should add country top 40 to the site-just for him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 13:30
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've been waiting for [email protected] to start up ProgPolkaArchives ........Let's go!!

LOL  

- Yes, I can be very late with my reaction to some posts.


Edited by David_D - August 05 2022 at 16:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 15:08
Originally posted by rushaholic rushaholic wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

This has become a bit more true since I a week ago wrote this post in my blog "How to define and classify Progressive Rock?":
my hell man... do you ever give this stuff a break?  i leave for a while and come back and again you are trying to define and classify.  ffs!!! get over it and move on.  enjoy the ride.

Thanks for your concern, rushaholic, and I can assure you, I do enjoy the ride, and certainly in different ways as well. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 15:54
There's no question that in recent years Prog Rock has been evolving.
It's only natural that the farther away we are from the 70s the more the concept of Prog Rock is branching out, as new bands pop up with fresh interpretations of what producing progressive music may mean.
If you stick to considering classic Prog as "the purest Prog there is", unavoidably you will be challenged by the progressiveness of many recent bands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Heart of the Matter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 17:20
Wait a minute, maybe this IS "How to define and classify Progressive Rock?" reloaded...
Not complaining, just saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2022 at 22:21
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

There's no question that in recent years Prog Rock has been evolving.
It's only natural that the farther away we are from the 70s the more the concept of Prog Rock is branching out, as new bands pop up with fresh interpretations of what producing progressive music may mean.
If you stick to considering classic Prog as "the purest Prog there is", unavoidably you will be challenged by the progressiveness of many recent bands.
Yep, progressive rock cannot and should never have a completely finished definition. At least not until it's in a museum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2022 at 06:04
Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Wait a minute, maybe this IS "How to define and classify Progressive Rock?" reloaded...
Not complaining, just saying.

I won't complain for that either, even I wouldn't mind to hear some more opinions about listing non-Prog bands in Prog threads. 


Edited by David_D - August 06 2022 at 06:24
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