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Where to start (keyboard)?

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2024 at 19:22
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I own a keyboard but I don't know how to play either. I started to but never really got very far. Now here's the crazy part. I can still shred like a professional keyboard player but I don't really know what I'm doing or why it sounds good. I can't play any actual songs though. I'd like to learn just so I can better and actually play and not just do wild soloing.

Hi,

Here's food for thought!

A poet creates words as he goes along and it is not exactly something he/she has written at all, and it's liveliness is from the rendition and has nothing to do with anything else.

Painting, is (generally) a horribly static art ... my own younger sister, who has done many shows all over Europe for many years, spends an incredible amount of time on one piece or another, and making this detail ... like this, instead of like that. 

Here in Vancouver, I met and worked with someone that could draw some incredible pictures, and they started with fast "scratches" that somehow became some amazing pictures, many of which she considered were "angels" ... but sadly her family did not wish her to continue, and she had to go back to whatever it was, mostly arts and crafts of which she was a master. But the speed with which one of these pictures came alive, was something my sister did not like, or understood, for example, probably as she might have thought that it did not come off right, or needed this or that. In the "angel's" artist, it didn't matter ... many of the pictures had such an incredible liveliness in them that it was difficult to think that they were not "finished" or "perfect" in their own way ... but in essence, for my taste, she was the best artist I have ever met and seen, and her capability, was, sadly, cut short.

(This experience, which I helped her develop also involved my knowledge of having worked with actors in improvisation, and in her case I requested that she explain what she saw and drew, so I could also see it. This she developed incredibly well.)

Writing, is the same for me. I write what I see, is how I describe it, and what I see is just like a dream, and somehow it continues the next night like nothing was missing. It has its own logic and continuity and I am more concerned with the story "living" than I am with any thoughts or ideas of what it might mean, or be. I don't really care what they are or mean ... I care more for the fact I can "see them", and then be able to write it down ... fastttttt and faster ... so I can keep up!

If I ever got to the stage again, I doubt I would ever do the same thing twice, and it would be just like the stories from Jodorowsky's theater work (that got busted for sex on stage in Mexico city!) ... or from "The Living Theater" (Beck and Molina) which created live theater that was not ever the same.

It is possible in this commercial age, that a lot of this might not exactly be appreciated, but then that would mean a lot of experimental artists that never quit, are silly or crazy ... and yeah ... I don't think I would be worried about an audience, and probably do a show as if it were a podcast ... and I bet that some folks are going to love it ... 

Lots of ways to get around the social/commercial thing that has a tendency to intimidate us, and us think that even our family will not like it ... but in the end, you have to decide if you want to live your art, or you are just not going to bother with the ideas and then you get a job and go home to nothing.

Much of my work, might get published once I'm gone. Not because I don't want to be exposed for this or that, but mostly because sometimes my experiments, as you can tell by these writings, are something that many folks can not relate to in their daily lives of 40 hours and then home, and maybe a day off here and there for a chance to go to the beach! 

But if I had to, I would start doing my thing, and I might still do a podcast of some of my poetry "live" while experimenting with my synthesizer and various VST's ... sounds that gave me words, that created a feeling that I could continue on ... but will I be able to redo them on stage somewhere else? NEVER, and neither would I even try that! On that stage will be a new piece, and I might ask a child in the audience to come over to the synthesizer and move all kinds of knobs and sliders as much as they want, and what is there is what I start with ... there is no fear there for me ... it's all about you coloring your vision and how it gets to you, and sound is one thing that wakes me up fast.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Valdez1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2024 at 21:58
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I own a keyboard but I don't know how to play either. I started to but never really got very far. Now here's the crazy part. I can still shred like a professional keyboard player but I don't really know what I'm doing or why it sounds good. I can't play any actual songs though. I'd like to learn just so I can better and actually play and not just do wild soloing.


Same here . I can produce acceptable and sometimes interesting sounds I can’t shred like a pro… I can fake it for a minute or two (shredding) but that’s about it. That’s why I bought the Alfred course books.
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2024 at 22:40
^I have a full sized (I think) casio keyboard. Can I use the Alfred book for that or is just for piano? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2024 at 06:32
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^I have a full sized (I think) casio keyboard. Can I use the Alfred book for that or is just for piano? 

Hi,

I think the books are good to learn some basic things about "MUSIC". But the problem is, as I SEE IT (!!!), that it involves you learning, and memorizing some things that are all about current music theory, and while helpful so you can remember/replay the same thing, in the end, one of the bad sides of that kind of instruction is ... it does not exactly help you SEE INTO YOURSELF so you can LEARN TO PUT A SOUND TO WHAT YOU hear and see ... which is what real artists do, within their own specific ability. They clarify their own inner vision ... and that is what we hear ... not a song that someone else created and we don't even know how to interpret it, and think an imaginary idea is the song.

Remember one important thing. A child knows no theory, and yet he/she can sit and create all kinds of sounds, that we don't consider important because it is not ordered and formatted in the way that we want ... which in the end, is what hurts the learning of almost anything ... the more you can relate it to your inner side, the better player you will become. It has nothing to do with theory and a book ... and we need to get a hold of that thought a bit more. However, this does not mean that you can't learn from the book how to become good ... you WON'T. You will learn some mechanics instead. But taking that part into the next step is where most people stop and fail. The learning/teaching did not exactly translate to what you hoped to find and see. However, if you were able to find that portion of the inner side from the studies, you might just make it through the 20 dragons and portals (Bardo joke!!!) to get to the top of the mountain.


Edited by moshkito - May 14 2024 at 06:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2024 at 02:42
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I started playing guitar in 1972, initially practicing at least 4 hours/day. 52 years later I'm still unable to perform Al Di Meola's Mediterranean Sundance, despite many attempts. Nowadays I enjoy keyboard, piano, bass and flute, but none of them well enough to let me say that I'm a musician. 
...

HI,

Time out ... 

Who says you can not create the Octopus-4 Mediterranean Sundance on the roof with the Riviera Sun?

Comparisons, are tough, and they kinda hurt your seeing where to take your own intuition, which seems to think that others got right and you can't.

Your intuition is the "creator" and the Emerson, and the Di Meola, are NOT because of what they did ... it's a tough thing to recreate the past, and one of the worst teaching tools about any instrument ... all teachers can tell you this and that and this and that ... but none of them can even consider asking, or helping you find your own "note" ... that's sick ... it's like you are doomed to be inferior, regardless.  Everyone else has the "note" and "song" and you won't? What kind of positive lesson is that for a student?

Go listen to Keith Jarrett talk about teachers ... and many musicians that went their own way when they were young, and many are worth the story .. Eno, Wyatt, Hammill, Vander, Emerson (you gotta hear his stuff played on piano first by Rachel Flowers!!!) and many other "originals" that made a serious difference.
Hi, I'm reading now your reply. 
I don't mean that I want to be an Al di Meola or a Keith Emerson. Just that I still enjoy playing after 50 years even if it didn't lead me to any "success". I play and write music, I put the stuff on Bandcamp mainly to have a backup more than for selling anything. It's only a hobby like another, but whenever I become able to play something more difficult than my usual, the satisfaction is enormous.

I agree with you about putting the book away sometimes. Whoever has developed the music theory has just given names and standards to the things that he/she experienced while making music.

Of course the techniques are a different thing. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that I'll never be able to play a flute correctly if I don't get a proper teacher at least for some beginner's lessons. 
This is another suggestion that I can provide: get 4 or 5 lessons just to learn how to put your hands on your instrument in an effective way, how to minimize the movements when passing from a note or a chord to another.  It's like turning the motor on, then the wheels start moving.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2024 at 02:46
About the instruments: I have a Korg X5 as synth and a Korg electric piano
The first is very old and I don't know how much a similar device can cost today, probabli not more than the mentioned 700$. The piano is a beginners instrument but with all its 88 keys and for me it's enough. It's quite cheap for the brand: I think I have spent about 300€ for it (around 350$, probably).

I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2024 at 05:43
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

...
I agree with you about putting the book away sometimes. Whoever has developed the music theory has just given names and standards to the things that he/she experienced while making music.
...
Of course the techniques are a different thing. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that I'll never be able to play a flute correctly if I don't get a proper teacher at least for some beginner's lessons. 
This is another suggestion that I can provide: get 4 or 5 lessons just to learn how to put your hands on your instrument in an effective way, how to minimize the movements when passing from a note or a chord to another.  It's like turning the motor on, then the wheels start moving.

Hi,

Nice. Enjoyed reading this!

Finger placement and such ... even that is a funny thing ... do you ever ask how Hiromi says that she learned by associating colors with the sounds/notes/chords ... and then played? I always wondered even about guitarists ... Jeff Beck was very different in how he approached the strings and played. Mike Oldfield as well. And many others, to the point that it makes one think that ... you have to find how to use your fingers in a manner that helps express your manner and self. Just recently, listening to that one guy talk about Keith Emerson, and how "he had to have big hands to be able to play that many notes!!!" ... and the whole time we saw him in concert we never thought that but the music (and notes!!!) was there!

And then, one of my favorites ... how does a blind person process it all ... and has a memory that is to die for? We're not answering that ... and in some ways, I think that ability to "tune in" is way more valuable than ... many ideas ... it's down right insane watching Rachel Flowers, or even Stevie Wonder ... or Ray Charles ... and many others ... and somehow, they have inside something about the "music" that Berkley can't teach, and a book is not good enough to help ... and these are the areas (FOR ME) where improvisation has come alive with many actors and artists ... in the end, it felt like it was all about the discovery that you had something else that helps ... all of a sudden the actors were "tuned" to the performance where before you KNEW they were trying hard to make sure they knew the words and the paces to move.

My favorite example, btw, is from a book by Peter Brook, a theater director that did a lot of experiments with actors (See a film called THE TIGHTROPE -- a perfect example, and something you will likely enjoy!) and the play King Lear with Keith Michell that he did several hundred performances ... and in one part, there is a repetition of words during the soliloquy, and PB says that Keith never once said it the same way, and each time it was outstanding, and totally tuned in! That ought to send many guitarists into heck for thinking it wasn't perfect!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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