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Prog created with the help of AI

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arohtelp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arohtelp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2024 at 06:24
I started composing music back in the late 90s using programs like Fast Tracker and Modplug Tracker. (Here are some tracks from that period: https://soundcloud.com/user-483988808 ) But then I switched to FL Studio, and began to try to achieve high quality arrangements and sound, which requires a lot of time and effort. As a result, I began to lose the desire to write anything at all. After all, this is a hobby, not a main job. For the last 5-6 years I almost gave up, but then suddenly Suno and UDIO appeared and my interest flared up again. In this sense, such programs can encourage people who would normally never do anything like this to engage in some creative activities. 
It could be argued that this would lead to an oversaturation of the music market and harm professional musicians. However, let's be honest, musicians who make music primarily for self-expression in most cases can make money only from live concerts. But concerts are here to stay. At least in the next 10-15 years. And when they mostly disappear, it will not be because of amateurs using AI to create music, but because of the AIs themselves, who will begin to create music for each specific person in a fully automatic mode. 
As for musicians who create music primarily for money, this, in my opinion, is not an art at all, but a craft, which is absolutely logical to automate. And this is neither good nor bad, this is progress. It's unavoidable.
Nobody forbids you to compose music the old fashioned way in the future, but you must be prepared for the fact that you will spend a lot of effort and time, but almost no one will listen to it. In fact, even now almost no one will listen to it, unless you express yourself by composing trendy catchy pop music (but even in this case there will be few listeners without special promotion).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2024 at 06:33
Quote which requires a lot of time and effort. As a result, I began to lose the desire to write anything at all. After all, this is a hobby, not a main job
I call bullshіt on this one. If something is truly your hobby, you like doing it, and you're really passionate about it, you will never ever lose the desire to do it.

If you don't have enough time for your hobbies in your job schedule, you can simply do it less often. Choosing to use GenAI instead is the equivalent to giving a huge middle finger to your own desires and to other people who are passionate about music making the same way you used to be.


Quote I started composing music back in the late 90s using programs like Fast Tracker and Modplug Tracker

BTW, Tracker music is super cool! As an FL Studio/Reaper user, I like to make some tracker modules from time to time to escape my habits.


Edited by Hrychu - June 22 2024 at 06:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stegor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2024 at 18:17
I'm not a musician (maybe a non-musician), so I don't feel threatened by AI in the way that a professional musician might. But it seems to me the only musicians that need to worry are the ones that write disposable stock music, the same with stock photography and clip-art. I don't care how advanced and sophisticated AI music gets, it won't replace real music, because it is not REAL. The love for the CREATOR of the music is as important as the music itself, and who can love a bunch of ones and zeros? Or for that matter the human that types a prompt and pushes a button over and over again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2024 at 19:55
If any artist uses AI to create music, I think the artist should have full disclosure in the liner notes, giving consumers the choice to buy it or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2024 at 23:13
AI is useful as a way to get the creative process going.  For example, guitarist Jimmy Page would use different tunings on guitar and just play things, to generate ideas.  These were later fleshed out into songs with the band, processed etc. 

AI in art is much like that.  Most of the product I've seen or heard is garbage, the result of a lot of sampling across the web.  However, it can generate ideas.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2024 at 08:20
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

AI is useful as a way to get the creative process going.  For example, guitarist Jimmy Page would use different tunings on guitar and just play things, to generate ideas.  These were later fleshed out into songs with the band, processed etc. 

AI in art is much like that.  Most of the product I've seen or heard is garbage, the result of a lot of sampling across the web.  However, it can generate ideas.  

I agree. It would be more useful as a tool for jump-starting the creative process. What I've been seeing is people telling it to create an entire composition in the style of this or that. Instead of doing that, it would be more interesting to see what it does if told to make some random notes across maybe three bars in a given time signature and give it no style to work from. Sometimes just three or four notes are all that is needed to build an entire song around (e.g., the title track for Gilmour's Rattle That Lock was based on France's railway jingle used by SNCF)

There have been similar kinds of tools in the past: fractal music generators, random number generators, and mathematical tools (like Morse code or the Fibonacci sequence).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2024 at 08:35
I don't hate this tech when it's used as a sound design tool rather than a "press here if you lack talent" thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGazzardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2024 at 08:44
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote which requires a lot of time and effort. As a result, I began to lose the desire to write anything at all. After all, this is a hobby, not a main job
I call bullshіt on this one. If something is truly your hobby, you like doing it, and you're really passionate about it, you will never ever lose the desire to do it.

If you don't have enough time for your hobbies in your job schedule, you can simply do it less often. Choosing to use GenAI instead is the equivalent to giving a huge middle finger to your own desires and to other people who are passionate about music making the same way you used to be.

This is such a strange take to me. How people choose to spend their luxury time is up to those people, yet you are saying he is 'doing it wrong' and that he's not really 'passionate about it' because he doesn't do it the way you approve of?

GenAI is a landmine right now but imo using it as a creative assistant rather than as a creative replacement is way better. And if it's just to help you enjoy a hobby more - what's the deal? Seriously?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2024 at 08:47
Well, the problem appears when you decide to publish your "creations" made that way. If you publish something, you have to expect the viewers to enjoy it or not. If someone's hobby is to hurt others, it's not fair, right?

also
Quote because he doesn't do it the way you approve of?

It's not a question of whether I approve it or not. It's generally destructive for creativity. Tons of people have said it why that is. People with a lot more weight of words than just a rando like me.

Edited by Hrychu - June 24 2024 at 08:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2024 at 10:07
Anyway, I don't want this thread to become another "AI ethics drama battlefield". So, I'll leave yall with this.

Who wouldn't've preferred to wear a T-Shirt of their favorite artist knowing the artist is honest with the public rather than dishonest, right? ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2024 at 22:36
IMO, the use of AI in the arts is not creativity from the heart or mind but simply somewhat lazy. Most here have a dislike/hate of autotune, it was not around back in the day and all vocals were the natural talent of the singer. 
Today that is not the case at all where tons of autotune is being used. Using autotune replaces the work a vocalist needs to do to create a magical performance. If notes are not hit, simply use autotune and you can fix it.
If you are struggling writing a song/lyrics/music, and don't want to invest the artistic time, simply press a button. I don't think it has much to do about ethics, unless someone said they wrote the song but actually used some artificial help fir some or all if it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2024 at 22:41
Quote unless someone said they wrote the song but actually used some artificial help fir some or all if it.
Sadly, such scams are quite common. :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2024 at 04:59



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2024 at 05:14
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2024 at 08:30
Personally, I think that this kind of tools can stimulate creativity as long as they are used as tools and not as music/content generators. The more fundamental problem (just like with ChatGPT and the like) is that these tools use (roam the internet for) existing content - with total disregard if this content is copyrighted or not - to generate their things... Meaning: when you use these tools to generate music you might be accused of plagiarism:


This will be interesting to follow...


Edited by suitkees - June 25 2024 at 08:35

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2024 at 18:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2024 at 01:56
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

If any artist uses AI to create music, I think the artist should have full disclosure in the liner notes, giving consumers the choice to buy it or not.
 
As counterintuitive as it may seem, this lends credence to the notion that AI are to be regarded as person-like entities with the right to such things as copyright ownership. Otherwise, if AI is regarded as a mere tool, then why should the use of such a tool be disclosed when the use of other music creation tools are not required to be disclosed?
 
Perhaps a solution to the AI "problem" is the requirement that all AI output be placed into the public domain. This would create a disincentive for AI to be used purely for money-making purposes and would create an environment in which AI benefits humanity as a whole.
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2024 at 02:23
Quote then why should the use of such a tool be disclosed when the use of other music creation tools are not required to be disclosed?
Simple. It's because of how much creative decitions the ""tool"" is making, and not the creator.

Have you ever seen a guitar that plays itself and comes up with its own chords?

Claiming authorship for a soulless turd made and more importantly conceived entirely by a machine, with no real intention regarding the majority of creative decisions in the "music" is simply being dishonest with the consumer. 👎

Edited by Hrychu - July 06 2024 at 02:27
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2024 at 05:28
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Claiming authorship for a soulless turd made and more importantly conceived entirely by a machine, with no real intention regarding the majority of creative decisions in the "music" is simply being dishonest with the consumer. 👎
 
Oh really?!! If I compose a piece of music on a computer and have it played to a synthesiser via MIDI, is that being dishonest because I didn't manually play it? Is it being dishonest because they're not real instruments? If I create a piece of music by multitracking several different performances together, is that being dishonest because I didn't manually play it in real time? If I apply an effect to modify my singing voice, is that being dishonest because it's not my real voice? If I use the roll of the dice to assist in what notes or chords to use in a composition, is that being dishonest because the choices made were not entirely mine? If I edit a composition created by AI to conform to my tastes, is that still being dishonest because I didn't do all of the work even though it contains many decisions that are mine?
 
You are arguing from a position that is self-contradictory. On the one hand, you are arguing that AI music is grossly inferior, but on the other hand, you are arguing that the consumer is being deceived by it. What if AI music eventually becomes as good as that from the best human artists?
 



Edited by I prophesy disaster - July 06 2024 at 05:39
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2024 at 09:15
^ agreed. Even folkies claimed dishonesty when folk artists used electric instruments. A.I. is just another advancement in computer technology. It can only do what it's programmed to do. Computers have always been a form of A.l. and it has been argued that the first example of A.I. was the Henry Ford's assembly line production of early automobiles. Unlikely any machine will replace human creativity any time soon.



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