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Green and Funky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 06 2005
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Points: 99
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Topic: Grendel is not Apocalypse in 9/8 Posted: November 01 2005 at 14:15 |
first of all, ITS NOT IN 9/8! its 8/8! second of all, though the bass lines are similar, the bands take them to different effects. No need to compare.
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Your hands and feet are mangos, you're gonna be a genius anyway
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 4097
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 14:25 |
I'm not even going to comment on that. I think yargh might, though, but I should think I'll agree with him s that's OK
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10256
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 14:51 |
Green and Funky wrote:
first of all, ITS NOT IN 9/8! its 8/8! second of all, though the bass lines are similar, the bands take them to different effects. No need to compare. |
Even Fish admitted that "Grendel" was very much inspired by "Apocalypse in 9/8".
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:00 |
And Apocalypse in 9/8 is indeed in 9/8. Not sure if that's what you were saying "Green and Funky" but it is in 9/8. And Marillion gets 99% of their ideas from Genesis anyway. Regardless to who compares Grendel to Apocalypse or Grendel in general to Supper's Ready, Marillion is very much like Genesis and they do say that they use many of their ideas.
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One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity
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Yanns
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 25 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 999
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:03 |
I was about to say, it is in fact in 9/8.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:08 |
So we're markng out of 8 now are we? I'll give it 5/8 then!
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:11 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Green and Funky wrote:
first of all, ITS NOT IN 9/8! its 8/8! second of all, though the bass lines are similar, the bands take them to different effects. No need to compare. |
Even Fish admitted that "Grendel" was very much inspired by "Apocalypse in 9/8".
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Correct, and you can hear that very well. Marillion was imitating with an 8/8 version, with a boom-thrak-boom-boom-thrak-boom-thrak-thrak pattern, to put in Crimsonite terms, errr ....
I mean:
A-B-A-A
B-A-B-B
So 8/8, and a rhythm pattern where the second part is mirroring the 1st part.
If someone can still understand what I mean . A friend of mine said that the Grendel - rhythm was very complicated. I said: no it's not, and it's a rip-off from an intricate Genesis - track.
Still, imitation or not, Grendel is a great track. One of my favourite Marillion-tracks. Except for the cheap imitation .
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
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Points: 16449
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:14 |
the whole think was based around the way Suppers Ready was created, still a good track though.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1355
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:53 |
The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I
think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence.
Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them.
They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's
Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:04 |
Forgotten Son wrote:
The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism. |
Of course not to that extent but the band (or at least the three remaining members from that time) all admit that that was their attempt at the 20 minute epic in the fain of Suppers Ready, even if they vehmenently denied any influence from Genesis at the time
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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An old fart
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 15 2005
Location: Finland
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Points: 207
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:23 |
What's the big deal about one fragment in a 17 minute song that has a rhythmic similarity to one fragment in another 23 minute song, when the rest of the song is totally different from Supper's Ready? Both are great tracks! Is it surprising that a neo-prog band is inspired by Genesis? Who isn't?
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"Make tea, not love"
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005
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Points: 421
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:35 |
Forgotten Son wrote:
The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism. |
Author Paul Stump said it best when he characterized Marillion as basically "a Genesis tribute band."
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Green and Funky
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Location: United States
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:39 |
[QUOTE=FragileDT] And Apocalypse in 9/8 is indeed in 9/8. Not sure if that's what you were saying "Green and Funky" but
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Your hands and feet are mangos, you're gonna be a genius anyway
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:54 |
yargh wrote:
Forgotten Son wrote:
The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism. |
Author Paul Stump said it best when he characterized Marillion as basically "a Genesis tribute band."
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thats going a bit too far i think, Marillion has their own "sound" thats different to that of Genesis, but yea I see the similaritys.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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SlipperFink
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 230
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 20:00 |
yargh wrote:
Forgotten Son wrote:
The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism. | [/ P]
Author Paul Stump said it best when he characterized Marillion as basically "a Genesis tribute band." | As much as it pains me to agree with a tin-eared zorch like yargo- zargofish.... He is, in this particular instance... Correct. Now if we can just school him on the glaringly apperant distictions between blue-eyed gospel, folk and country influences in American music in the 70's we may be able to take him to woodshop II. SM.
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Green and Funky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 06 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 99
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 20:04 |
[QUOTE=FragileDT] And Apocalypse in 9/8 is indeed in 9/8. Not sure if that's what you were saying "Green and Funky" but
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Your hands and feet are mangos, you're gonna be a genius anyway
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Green and Funky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 06 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 99
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 20:06 |
I was saying the GRENDEL section is in 8/8, not 9/8. Apocalypse is quite obviously in 9/8. Therefore, they DON'T have the same rhythm, only the notes from the bass line are the same. And Marillion does not get 99% of their ideas from Genesis, that's ridiculous and you should be ashamed of yourself for making such a blatant hyperbole. I'm tired of hearing all this sh*t about how Marillion are ripoffs of Genesis. Genesis were a big influence on Marillion. Yes. But who cares? Marillion made good music, so why does it matter? When almost every band was selling out to record companies, Marillion kept prog alive in the 80's. Would it have been better if Marillion didn't exist in the 80's and all music was just pop sh*t? Marilion kept the prog flame alive. Genesis was a great band and Marillion was good too. We can leave it at that.
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Your hands and feet are mangos, you're gonna be a genius anyway
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 421
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Posted: November 01 2005 at 20:22 |
SlipperFink wrote:
Now if we can just school him on the glaringly apperant distictions between blue-eyed gospel, folk and country influences in American music in the 70's we may be able to take him to woodshop II.
SM. |
What's this in reference to?
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Prosciutto
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 23 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 123
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Posted: November 02 2005 at 02:43 |
Green and Funky wrote:
Marillion kept prog alive in the 80's. Would it have been better if Marillion didn't exist in the 80's and all music was just pop sh*t? Marilion kept the prog flame alive.
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If Marillion hadn't existed, we would always have had Pallas and Twelfth Night
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Don't be a prog-hole, please...
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SlipperFink
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 230
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Posted: November 02 2005 at 03:08 |
yargh wrote:
What's this in reference to? | You've peaked. I've arrived to debunk you. Enjoy. SM.
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