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Topic ClosedGrendel is not Apocalypse in 9/8

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Green and Funky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Grendel is not Apocalypse in 9/8
    Posted: November 01 2005 at 14:15
first of all, ITS NOT IN 9/8! its 8/8! second of all, though the bass
lines are similar, the bands take them to different effects. No
need to compare.
Your hands and feet are mangos, you're gonna be a genius anyway
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 14:25
I'm not even going to comment on that. I think yargh might, though, but I should think I'll agree with him s that's OK
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 14:51

Originally posted by Green and Funky Green and Funky wrote:

first of all, ITS NOT IN 9/8! its 8/8! second of all, though the bass
lines are similar, the bands take them to different effects. No
need to compare.

Even Fish admitted that "Grendel" was very much inspired by "Apocalypse in 9/8".



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:00
And Apocalypse in 9/8 is indeed in 9/8. Not sure if that's what you were
saying "Green and Funky" but it is in 9/8. And Marillion gets 99% of their
ideas from Genesis anyway. Regardless to who compares Grendel to
Apocalypse or Grendel in general to Supper's Ready, Marillion is very much
like Genesis and they do say that they use many of their ideas.
One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:03
I was about to say, it is in fact in 9/8.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:08
So we're markng out of 8 now are we? I'll give it 5/8 then!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:11
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Green and Funky Green and Funky wrote:

first of all, ITS NOT IN 9/8! its 8/8! second of all, though the bass
lines are similar, the bands take them to different effects. No
need to compare.

Even Fish admitted that "Grendel" was very much inspired by "Apocalypse in 9/8".

Correct, and you can hear that very well. Marillion was imitating with an 8/8 version, with a boom-thrak-boom-boom-thrak-boom-thrak-thrak pattern, to put in Crimsonite terms, errr ....

I mean:

A-B-A-A

B-A-B-B

So 8/8, and a rhythm pattern where the second part is mirroring the 1st part.

If someone can still understand what I mean  . A friend of mine said that the Grendel - rhythm was very complicated. I said: no it's not, and it's a rip-off from an intricate Genesis - track.

Still, imitation or not, Grendel is a great track. One of my favourite Marillion-tracks. Except for the cheap imitation  .

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:14

the whole think was based around the way Suppers Ready was created, still a good track though. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 15:53
The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:04

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism.

Of course not to that extent but the band (or at least the three remaining members from that time) all admit that that was their attempt at the 20 minute epic in the fain of Suppers Ready, even if they vehmenently denied any influence from Genesis at the time

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:23
What's the big deal about one fragment in a 17 minute song that has a rhythmic similarity to one fragment in another 23 minute song, when the rest of the song is totally different from Supper's Ready? Both are great tracks! Is it surprising that a neo-prog band is inspired by Genesis? Who isn't?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:35

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism.

Author Paul Stump said it best when he characterized Marillion as basically "a Genesis tribute band."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:39
[QUOTE=FragileDT] And Apocalypse in 9/8 is indeed in 9/8.
Not sure if that's what you were
saying "Green and Funky" but
Your hands and feet are mangos, you're gonna be a genius anyway
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 19:54
Originally posted by yargh yargh wrote:

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

The only similarities between them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism.

Author Paul Stump said it best when he characterized Marillion as basically "a Genesis tribute band."

thats going a bit too far i think, Marillion has their own "sound" thats different to that of Genesis, but yea I see the similaritys.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 20:00
Originally posted by yargh yargh wrote:

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

The only similarities between
them is in that one section, which I think of as Marillion paying homage
to an important influence. Marillion did not rip off Genesis, nor did they
seek to mimic them. They may have set out to create an epic slightly
similar to Supper's Ready, but not to the extent of plagarism.
[/
P]

Author Paul Stump said it best when he characterized Marillion as
basically "a Genesis tribute band."



As much as it pains me to agree with a tin-eared zorch like yargo-
zargofish....

He is, in this particular instance...

Correct.

Now if we can just school him on the glaringly apperant distictions
between blue-eyed gospel, folk and country influences in American music
in the 70's we may be able to take him to woodshop II.

SM.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 20:04
[QUOTE=FragileDT] And Apocalypse in 9/8 is indeed in 9/8.
Not sure if that's what you were
saying "Green and Funky" but
Your hands and feet are mangos, you're gonna be a genius anyway
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 20:06


I was saying the GRENDEL section is in 8/8, not 9/8.
Apocalypse is quite obviously in 9/8. Therefore, they DON'T
have the same rhythm, only the notes from the bass line are the
same. And Marillion does not get 99% of their ideas from
Genesis, that's ridiculous and you should be ashamed of
yourself for making such a blatant hyperbole. I'm tired of
hearing all this sh*t about how Marillion are ripoffs of Genesis.
Genesis were a big influence on Marillion. Yes. But who cares?
Marillion made good music, so why does it matter? When
almost every band was selling out to record companies,
Marillion kept prog alive in the 80's. Would it have been better if
Marillion didn't exist in the 80's and all music was just pop sh*t?
Marilion kept the prog flame alive.

Genesis was a great band and Marillion was good too. We can
leave it at that.
Your hands and feet are mangos, you're gonna be a genius anyway
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2005 at 20:22

Originally posted by SlipperFink SlipperFink wrote:

Now if we can just school him on the glaringly apperant distictions
between blue-eyed gospel, folk and country influences in American music
in the 70's we may be able to take him to woodshop II.

SM.

What's this in reference to?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2005 at 02:43

Originally posted by Green and Funky Green and Funky wrote:

 


Marillion kept prog alive in the 80's. Would it have been better if
Marillion didn't exist in the 80's and all music was just pop sh*t?
Marilion kept the prog flame alive.

If Marillion hadn't existed, we would always have had Pallas and Twelfth Night

Don't be a prog-hole, please...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2005 at 03:08
Originally posted by yargh yargh wrote:


What's this in reference to?



You've peaked.

I've arrived to debunk you.

Enjoy.

SM.
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