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Topic ClosedGrendel is not Apocalypse in 9/8

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2005 at 00:23
Originally posted by salmacis salmacis wrote:

I have to say I've never heard anything by Marillion
that I would say sounded like a clone of a Genesis song. I must say it took
me a little while longer to get into Marillion than some of the other neo-
prog bands, but I found that was because in all honesty, Marillion were
more original than IQ or Pendragon were. Sure, there are elements in
Marillion's sound that are akin to Genesis, but there are also traces of
Pink Floyd and VDGG in there too, yet neither are explicit enough to be
labelled 'soundalike'.


In fact, 'Misplaced Childhood', alongside Camel's 'Nude', is one of the
only 80s prog albums I would label a totally flawless album.



Good points. The overall sound is derivative in some ways, but Marillion
are not a Genesis tribute band by any means, nor do any songs have a
similar sounding Genesis counterpart.

I see a great deal of Andy Latimer in Steve Rothery's guitar playing, far
more than I see Genesis in Marillion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2008 at 18:51
Artist's and their music are an acquired taste, especially in the progressive rock world.  I fell in love with Marillion in '83 and they single-handedly made me a prog-head.  Because of them I discovered all the original prog rock groups.  Yes, I believe the latter part of Grendel is almost a direct copy of Genesis' Apocalypse 9/8, be that as it may Grendel is one amazingly epic masterpiece, with plenty of its own delicious moments.  Also, Fish's lyrics have no equal before or after him.
 
If borrowing musical fragments or ideas makes the inspiree less of a musician or artist, then what excuse is there for Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb (album: The Wall 1979) which seems to borrow heavily from Peter Hammill's Lost and Found (from album: Over 1977)?  And that's just one example, of course.  It makes Pink Floyd no less original or "awesome".
 
We tend to reserve the highest praise for the pioneers, but those that came after build upon the foundations and expand on them.  We should be thankful, especially since as time goes on it becomes more difficult to be truly original and unique.
 
I can't wait to see Fish again this summer (June 2008) he's touring North America, I have tickets for shows in three different cities!  Woohoo!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 18:46
Originally posted by salmacis salmacis wrote:

I have to say I've never heard anything by Marillion that I would say sounded like a clone of a Genesis song. I must say it took me a little while longer to get into Marillion than some of the other neo-prog bands, but I found that was because in all honesty, Marillion were more original than IQ or Pendragon were. Sure, there are elements in Marillion's sound that are akin to Genesis, but there are also traces of Pink Floyd and VDGG in there too, yet neither are explicit enough to be labelled 'soundalike'.


Isn't Script pretty much what got the Marils the Genesis "clone" label? Sure, they developed their own sound, as all bands do, but I wouldn't say they were necessarily any more original than IQ. In the early '80s, I'd say Twelfth Night was more original than IQ, Marillion, Pendragon and Pallas.

Originally posted by salmacis salmacis wrote:

In fact, 'Misplaced Childhood', alongside Camel's 'Nude', is one of the only 80s prog albums I would label a totally flawless album.


Misplaced totally flawless? Isn't that a little bit of a stretch? More people seem to prefer Clutching, which I myself also like far better. Best one Marillion ever put out, IM/H/O.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 22:23
Wow, Genesis sure are popular! Even the dullest thread that has slightly anything to do with them gets 4 pages... mmm... I guess Im not helping prevent that either
"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 22:55
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Wow, Genesis sure are popular! Even the dullest thread that has slightly anything to do with them gets 4 pages... mmm... I guess Im not helping prevent that either
 But it was started in 2005!,  Yes they are popular and lots of people can't stand that.  Misplaced flawless, I might of said so in '85. I still love it maybe I've just played it too much. From what I've read opinion is split between MC and CAS, and script is ProgJester's fav album.Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 22:57
No, but the whole song is amateurish and hackneyed. Big%20smile

Still like it, though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 05:08
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

So we're markng out of 8 now are we? I'll give it 5/8 then!
 
that's a nice one.
 
speaking about nice ones, where is Snowy I miss him.
I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2008 at 13:37
I like both bands. I like Genesis a good bit more. I have no trouble accepting that Marillion is not much more than a Genesis cover band. There's no reason to be disappointed by this as long as the music's good. Besides, who wouldn't be in a Genesis coverband? The only thing cooler than that would be playing in a Yes cover band.
Starcastle and Druid.


Edited by yesman1972 - May 02 2008 at 13:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2008 at 14:49
Originally posted by Green and Funky Green and Funky wrote:



I was saying the GRENDEL section is in 8/8, not 9/8.
Apocalypse is quite obviously in 9/8. Therefore, they DON'T
have the same rhythm, only the notes from the bass line are the
same. And Marillion does not get 99% of their ideas from
Genesis, that's ridiculous and you should be ashamed of
yourself for making such a blatant hyperbole. I'm tired of
hearing all this sh*t about how Marillion are ripoffs of Genesis.
Genesis were a big influence on Marillion. Yes. But who cares?
Marillion made good music, so why does it matter? When
almost every band was selling out to record companies,
Marillion kept prog alive in the 80's. Would it have been better if
Marillion didn't exist in the 80's and all music was just pop sh*t?
Marilion kept the prog flame alive.

Genesis was a great band and Marillion was good too. We can
leave it at that.


Originally posted by Green and Funky Green and Funky wrote:



I like both bands. I like Genesis a good bit more. I have no trouble accepting that Marillion is not much more than a Genesis cover band. There's no reason to be disappointed by this as long as the music's good. Besides, who wouldn't be in a Genesis coverband? The only thing cooler than that would be playing in a Yes cover band.
Starcastle and Druid.


Fish was a huge fan of Genesis, though of course it was simply influence as opposed to "Cloning"  as you said. Though this is the only incident where they  directly copied from another song.

NO Grendel in itself is not like suppers ready, only the last section of the song even down to the keyboard solo over it. It isn't the most uncommon thing for a band to make a riff similar to a classic prog song, Such as Sieges even's "Dimensions" featuring a riff similar to Rush's "Xanadu" though in a different signature.

Yes I do like the song itself, but there is no need to justify that.

And cover bands aren't really my thing, cause I could take that for lack of inspiration to make one's own music. though often cover bands have moved on to become true ones...sorry for that being off topic.


Edited by Spydrfish - May 03 2008 at 15:18
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