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Topic ClosedWe -need- progressive rap.

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Man Overboard View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: We -need- progressive rap.
    Posted: November 11 2005 at 21:48
I'm listening to the new Sage Francis...  it's -so- -close-...  tons of creative musical elements, lots of time changes, insanely intelligent lyrics...  if we could just take that -next- -step-...

...I despise mainstream rap, but there's underground stuff that's seriously great.  If we could combine it with prog, I'd embrace it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 21:52
I really dont think it would be possible.. but yes i agree highly that there is heaps of good hip hop out there, and its a sadly misunderstood genre in the prog world.

Recently i've been getting into some instrumental hip hop (trip hop as some call it) and im very surprised to hear proggy passages! Stuff like Blockhead, Bonobo, rjd2, Dj shadow etc. All go way beyond the simple hip hop beat and mix many organic instruments in, very adventerous and progressive (as in progressing hip hop to new levels, not being prog)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 21:54
I don't think it would be beyond feasibility to rap in odd time signatures...  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 21:55
Originally posted by Man Overboard

I don't think it would be beyond feasibility to rap in odd time signatures...  

It would be very interesting, even extended tracks where after the MC raps the beat takes many different musical turns... i guess it could be possible to have 'proggy' rap but i think a new sub genre would be a long shot!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 21:58
At the very least, it would be insanely awesome if there was a single -album- that had the intention of fusing prog with rap...  full band, tons of ambition...  it could be amazing.  40 minutes of something that would surprise the hell out of everyone.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:03

Originally posted by Man Overboard

At the very least, it would be insanely awesome if there was a single -album- that had the intention of fusing prog with rap...  full band, tons of ambition...  it could be amazing.  40 minutes of something that would surprise the hell out of everyone.  

you'll have to work EXTREMELY hard to convince me!Confused

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:06
Greenback, look at it this way...  some people judge prog on Owner Of A Lonely Heart, and most people think rap/hip-hop is the stuff they hear on the radio. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:18
I've yet to hear anyone rap in anything other than 4/4. I'm not sure about underground rappers, but I seriously doubt that many of the mainstream rappers can even count.
The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:19

I agree.  Hip-Hop is sorely misunderstood

Man Overboard, ever tried anything by a group called The Roots?  one of the few mainstream groups I listen to, they throw off a great jazzy/laid back vibe that is just great.  and it's all done with live instrumentation.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:21
There is a hip hop band from Pittsburgh, PA called BEAM who play entirely improvisational hip hop.  They consist of a vocalist, turntablist, drummer, upright bassist, and "space" bass.  The space bassist has an effects rack about 4 feet high and he just experiments with different sounds while the band plays.  They usually play really dark, smoky jazz clubs and bars late at night and just flow for hours on end without stopping and they never play together except when they play shows.  it is a really impressive live show to see.

prog?  probably not... but its on the way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:41
I need prog rap like a hole in the head.
Improvement makes straight roads, but the crooked roads without improvement, are roads of genius.

Silence is the music of the future.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:46
By "progressive rap," do you mean rap that does new and innovative things with the genre, or just rap that incorporates elements of prog rock? Personally, I'd love to see either, or a combination of the two.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 23:08

Deffintly!

You get a hot Prog band ( a real Drummer, a synth or two, a guitarist, and a big black bass player) to lay down a hiphop/ rap groove that has characteristic of Prog. ( intricate harmonies, time/key changes, instrumentals and solos) But all of it keeps the hip hop/rap feel and ideas. Plus all the lyrics are rapped. Rapping harmonies anyone?!

Actually when ever someone asks me to beat box, I always do it in 5/4. Most people don't even notice and they can rap just fine in it.

 

* buh bshh bshh bu duh!*

 

I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 23:22
Originally posted by Man Overboard

I'm listening to the new Sage Francis...  it's -so- -close-...  tons of creative musical elements, lots of time changes, insanely intelligent lyrics...  if we could just take that -next- -step-...

...I despise mainstream rap, but there's underground stuff that's seriously great.  If we could combine it with prog, I'd embrace it. 


Sage Francis is awesome! There is a ton of great stuff in the undereground rap scene. Many of these artists embrace the same musical ethos displayed by prog bands. If you're at all interested in exploring this scene, artists to look for include: Aesop Rock, Immortal Technique, Eyedea & Abilities, Blueprint, Atmosphere, Swollen Members, Greyskul, Lyrics Born, Latyrx, DJ Format, Jurassic 5, Digable Planets, etc... For some stuff in the same genre but more instumental, check out DJ Shadow and RJD2. For great remixers try DJ Andy Smith, Kruder & Dorfmiester, and Prodigy's Liam Howlett. Liam Howlett actually includes some prog in his beats like Babe Ruth.

My point is: Even in the world of Hip-Hop, there are folks out there who subscribe to the prog ethos of challenging and forward looking music.

BTW Man Overboard, did you catch the beat from track 3 Locksmith is actually Romeo & Juliet, I'm not sure if its based on ELP's version, but its close.


Edited by Nipsey88


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 23:31

I don't think hip-hop is progressing the same way rock did, I don't expect to hear any 20 minute turntable solos anytime soon.

But the underground rap is very interesting. My favorite is Antipop Consortium.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 23:41

I disagree with anyone who generalizes rap, just as anyone generalizes prog..doesn't make sense and usually means the person talking doesn't really have much knowledge about the genre they are dissing (hey, look, I used a rap term!).

Public Enemy, one of the best rap bands ever, had a ton of ingenuity and inventiveness, and of course, was probably one of the most socially aware and intelligent. De La Soul sampled everyone from Hall and Oates to the Turtles to Black Sabbath. It all depends on what they kids grew up listening to. De La Soul listened to a lot of mainstream rock growing up, so they sampled much of that. Michael Franti/Spearhead make songs that remind you of Prince, Sly Stone, and even Devo, because he listened and listens to a very wide variety of music. I have heard several of these artists mention prog bands in admiration.

Dunno if the two genres can mix, but anything is possible.

If you like art of musicians, check my site (the music section) and tell me what you think! http://www.kenmeyerjr.com
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 23:46
I cant stand rap of any kind ... if prog goes rap I`m not going to consider it prog no matter what
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 23:50
Originally posted by s1ipp3ry

I cant stand rap of any kind ... if prog goes rap I`m not going to consider it prog no matter what


Free your mind sl1pp3ry, and your ass will follow.

Don't discount an entire genre on the crap you hear on the radio, there really is good hip-hop out there. Whether it can be prog...heh, even I don't know yet. But you never can tell what the future brings...


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 23:53
Actually it has been done. Burnt Noodle raps in one of their songs with very experimental music going on in the backround
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 23:55
Originally posted by gdub411

Actually it has been done. Burnt Noodle raps in one of their songs with very experimental music going on in the backround


Hmm, have heard the name but have never heard their stuff. I certainly will check it out now.


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