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Topic ClosedMore emphasis on albums rather than artis

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ummagumma08 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: More emphasis on albums rather than artis
    Posted: August 25 2004 at 11:34

I understand that in order to be listed in the archives, as an artist ,or band, you need to have had a career that in it’s entirety could be regarded as progressive, that’s ok, but sadly, in my opinion that excludes a lot of genuinely progressive albums released by artists, who would not fit the category ”A Prog-Rock band” because of numerous recordings outside this category.

I feel that it’s a shame that many progressive recordings aren’t listed in the archives because of that, and that many non-progressive records are (I for one could be without "Abacab", "Invisible Touch", "The Division Bell" etc. which are only listed because they were made by bands who once were progressive, but the albums mentioned really aren’t). I’m aware that the discussion whether a recording is progressive or not is a very subjective matter, but I do believe that most of us agree that for instance Kraftwerk’s ”Ralf und Florian” from 1973, which isn’t listed, is more progressive than Genesis’ ”Invisible Touch” from 1986, which is listed. I really feel that it’s a shame Kraftwerks early albums aren’t listed in the archives, but on the other hand I’m not in favour of including their entire catalogue, simply because they have released plenty recordings that really isn’t anywhere near progressive rock. So in my opinion it would improve this site if albums were considered ”prog or not” rather than artist, and include partial discographies of artists..



Edited by ummagumma08
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philippe View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2004 at 12:30

Yeah!!! true...You've just said what I have in thought for a long time. thanks friend! let's see what think the other members of the family.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2004 at 12:51
Thanks for you support in this matter, early Kraftwerk albums REALLY deserve a place in the archives... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2004 at 14:49
There's a similar thread in this section started by Dick Heath called "Bands with one off prog albums", which will be of interest to you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2004 at 20:14
Hey man, not only is the Division Bell a prog album, but it's an outstanding prog album!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2004 at 05:34

"the division bell" is well executed but it's just common stuff....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2004 at 05:42

Originally posted by Useful_Idiot Useful_Idiot wrote:

Hey man, not only is the Division Bell a prog album, but it's an outstanding prog album!

I wouldn't call it outstanding, and what attracts me to prog rock is no where to be found on this recording. But again defining what is prog and what is not is an extremely subjective matter, and you probably have your personal reasons for calling it prog, and I have my personal reasons for not calling it prog.

Trying to look at things from an objective point of view, somehow I am able to understand why some people would consider this album prog though...

    

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2004 at 13:50
I think that albums like Invisible Touch which are blatantly not prog are one thing, stuff like The Division Bell where it could be argued it's not prog is another.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2004 at 17:42

Originally posted by Useful_Idiot Useful_Idiot wrote:

I think that albums like Invisible Touch which are blatantly not prog are one thing, stuff like The Division Bell where it could be argued it's not prog is another.

I Agree. But trying to decide whether The Division Bell is prog or not isn't actually the purpose of this thread.

It could be interesting if anyone, besides Philippe and I, is in favour of exclusion of, as you rightly put it:

Quote ...albums like Invisible Touch which are blatantly not prog....
and inclusion of albums, where it strongly could be argued that it is prog.



Edited by ummagumma08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2004 at 10:59

ummagumma08 wrote: "...early Kraftwerk albums REALLY deserve a place in the archives..."

I agree with you regarding Kraftwerk.

On the subject of non-Prog albums by so-called Prog bands, I think it is worth having the albums in the Archives as one can see the progression/evolution of the band in its entirety (good, or bad).

On the subject of one-off Prog albums by non-Prog bands, it might be a bit of a can of worms due to differing opinions on what is and isn't a Prog album. Would an Archive section entitled "One-off Progressive albums by non-Prog bands" (or other words to that effect) be a possible compromise? Perhaps the albums to be included in such an Archive section could be voted on by the members of this forum?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2004 at 14:00

I agree with Fitzcarraldo.

I would be opposed to the omission of certain works by prog bands because they were not considered prog enough. It's too subjective. While I don't rate some of Genesis later albums very highly for example, I think it's esential that they are listed. There could be whole thread to debate whether "Duke" was "prog enough"!

I'd certainly like to see a place being found for albums such as "Argus" by Wishbone Ash, without including all their albums. Perhaps a separate listing of such albums under the Various Artists section would be a good place.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2004 at 15:57
Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:

On the subject of one-off Prog albums by non-Prog bands, it might be a bit of a can of worms due to differing opinions on what is and isn't a Prog album. Would an Archive section entitled "One-off Progressive albums by non-Prog bands" (or other words to that effect) be a possible compromise? Perhaps the albums to be included in such an Archive section could be voted on by the members of this forum?

I like this idea.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2004 at 16:11

I reckon that exclusion of various possibly non-prog albums is a very touchy subject, and since they are listed and reviewers have reviewed them it, on the other hand, would be a waste to simply exclude them, I just don't see why they were should be here in the first place.

What's far more important is inclusion of prog albums by non-prog artists, and fortunately there seems to be some consensus regarding that.       

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2004 at 17:15

Originally posted by ummagumma08 ummagumma08 wrote:

What's far more important is inclusion of prog albums by non-prog artists, and fortunately there seems to be some consensus regarding that.       

I have heard modern prog artists that take a page out of the music written by non-prog artist that had one or two prog albums.

Case in point: Relayer (The Teething Fashion and The Last Man on Earth) and  Kaipa (Keyholder).

The singers in both bands are directly influenced by Freddie Mercury. Queen's albums I, II, Sheer Heart Attack and A Day at the Races are more than slightly prog. Very prog by some standards, yet they cannot make the archive.

I'm sure many other cases could be sited, but this is the most glaring to me.

I love the idea of a "one off prog album" section of the archive. The ADMINISTRATORS could conduct polls on individual albums for inclusionary purposes. Fair and possibly democratic.



Edited by danbo
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