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micky 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
 Posted: December 29 2005 at 23:18 |
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hahahaha... Allmusic... oh come on. That site sucks.
My source is the bands book Close to the Edge, and backed up by the fact that the album CHARTED in 1971 hahahahha. They did several tours of the U.S. after it's release Ivan, and then were recording CttE in Februrary '72. No way in hell that Fragile was released in '72. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: December 29 2005 at 23:21 |
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then again..... I'll be man enough to say.... let me retract that post... and look this over hahahahah |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 29 2005 at 23:22 |
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Please, don't be stubborn, I'm providing you information from THE OFFICIAL YES WEB SITE, I'm giving you the links, and copied the information from the back of the original LP. That's what pisses me, I give you three places and you only mention Allmusic, but you omit The Official Yes Web site and Prog Archives. Iván EDIT: And yes, Close to the Edge was recorded almost inmediately after Fragile because of contractual requirements made by A&M Records who owned the contract of Rick Wakeman and was forcing him to release his stuff. If you check the album it says that Rick Wakeman appears by courtesy of A&M Records
Rick Wakeman appears courtesy of A & M Records Limited
Edited by ivan_2068 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: December 29 2005 at 23:25 |
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obviously I didn't catch them... I scrolled down and caught the first, didn't realize there were more. Easy now.... |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: December 29 2005 at 23:31 |
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Ivan... well I'm a stubborn man. Just getting started I guess. From the
excelent website of Yes's tours over the years. A quote from
someone at the show.
11-03-71 "In 1971 I saw Yes at the Whisky A Go Go (touring to support the recent release of 'Fragile'), and the opening act was Mary Wells. Truly bizarre." |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: December 29 2005 at 23:32 |
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hahahah I bet it was a bizzare show  |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 29 2005 at 23:40 |
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Micky, the bands usually promote their albums before being released, in the case of Yes in 1971 it was necessary, because after recording Close to the Edge they wouldn't have enough time to tour due to Wakeman's obligations with A&M Records. BTW: You're quoting SOMEONE'S phrase in a non official Yes site, this guy named SOMEONE can be wrong in dates and info. I'm giving you not only the official Yes information, but the data copied from the back of the original release. You can't get more than that, learn to accept when you're mistaken due to a wrong and unreliable information. Iván Edited by ivan_2068 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 00:05 |
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oh come on now... do you want to get on my knees and admit you are right. You're better than that. I'll accept when I'm mistaken when I find out WHY I'm mistaken. Not until I find out why Fragile charted in '71 if it wasn't released. If admitting I'm mistaken will make your day and get you out of this crappy mood you are in, I will after I'm convinced that I am. Until then, I have some advice in return for you, lighten up and have some fun, imagine Yes and Mary Wells performing at the Whiskey. Bizarre! hahahah |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 00:12 |
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I give up, you're even more stubborn than me, when I read facts I have to accept my mistake, but you're entitled to your own reaction. You know I'm right, the rest of the forum knows because the evidence is 100% accurate and incontrovertible (I wish I had this kind of evidence in my trials), but go on, you won't find places more reliable than the Official Yes site and Prog Archives. BTW: I'm having fun, aren't you? Iván Edited by ivan_2068 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 00:20 |
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I'll take that as a compliment. Yes I'm having fun, though I don't take to being lectured to, that is the province of my mother (and wife hahahaha). Ivan if I'm right or wrong... I don't care I'll admit if I wrong and I surely am. If I'm wrong it was an honest mistake. You know what I do on DDD, what is important to me is getting it right, and finding out why my sources are wrong so I don't use them again. Anyway, enjoyed the chat, and have a good night! Edited by micky |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Gomah
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: September 02 2005 Status: Offline Points: 152 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 01:05 |
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From Wikipedia (though its information is not always valid): Fragile was issued in the UK in November 1971, but held back in North America for two months because of the still-growing momentum of The Yes Album. From BBC web site: Yes (Atlantic 1969)*** http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/johnpeel/artists/y/yes/#discogra phy I hope that puts an end to the Fragile release date issue. Edited by Gomah |
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 20 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1485 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 01:20 |
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Fragile was released Jan. 4 1972. I remember that because the 4th is my
birthday. |
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 01:29 |
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Gomah: If you check the BBC discography is not even complte, because Yesterdays is not included, and Wikipedia is absolutely unreliable. From the centerfold of the original 2003 release which I own, but copied from the Official Yescography Page: ____________________________________________________________ ____________ Album: Fragile Band members: Produced by Yes and Eddie Offord 2003 expanded and remastered release: ____________________________________________________________ __________ Again, the information is not accurate for one simple reason, the album was recorded in September 1971 (As the credits clearly state) the cover was printed in November 1971 (That's why the serial number is 1971) but according to the ORIGINAL ALBUM and the OFFICIAL YES SITE, it was released in 1972 (January 4). Now, if you want more, also from the Official Yescography site: YES (ABWH) ALBUMS DISCOGRAPHYYes, 1969/expanded and remastered, 2003
Now, if you still don't want to believe all this sites, check WWW.YESWORLD.COM, the absolutely and original official website of Yes and all the members:
Please, don't insist, the first site I quoted is linked as the Official YESCOGRAPHY, and this last one is the complete and authorized YES OFFICIAL HOME.
You can't find anything more reliable than this, IT'S YES WHO PUBLISH THIS INFO!!!!! Not third persons, not Wikipedia, not the BBC, it's the one and only YES, whoi else can you trust more than that?????????????? Iván Edited by ivan_2068 |
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Gomah
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2005 Status: Offline Points: 152 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 04:07 |
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Iván: I personally don't care when exactly it was released as I am neither a music historian nor a lawyer. But as a lawyer you already know that not all the information are simply out there even on the official web sites. Apparently Yes and affiliated web sites don't care to mention about those details. And the fact that BBC discography is not complete does NOT mean it is WRONG on dates. I have the Fragile LP which is a 1972 release by Atlantic (SD-7211) with a green and red label. But there is an earlier release of this on plum Atlantic/Polydor label (2401019): As for 'Fragile', again, the original issue UK red/plum (Atlantic; 2401-019), released Nov. 1971 is killer. You've not heard The Fish or Heart of the Sunrise unless you've heard this one. Contrary to popular belief, the red/green UK (Atlantic K50009) version was not released until Aug. 1972. The first US pressing is (Atlantic SD7211). Here is an oddity. I find that the UK first pressing is superior in every way to the first US pressing EXCEPT FOR South Side of the Sky which, for some unexplained reason, sounds much more dynamic on SD7211. Go figure. BTW, the second US pressing (Atlantic SD 19132) absolutely sucks. As for the Japanese version, all I can say is OY. They, IMHO, ruined this masterpiece by rolling of the bass (a sin given Squires' many phat and intricate chords on this LP). A real shame. From: http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vinyl&n=272942 You can still argue what the guy said is BS and also what others say: http://www.popsike.com/php/detaildata.php?itemnr=4705562519, but I don’t buy that and not going to argue anymore on this. Bottom line of the story is if you lived in UK in 1971, you could have bought the Fragile LP sometime in November and December of that year before the official US release date of Jan 4, 1972. BTW, I like both NC and Fragile and don’t know which one I like more. Edits: Still if you want more evidence on Fragile being released in Nov 1971, and you believe in Yesography, why dont you take a look at this: http://www.relayer35.com/Yescography/Yescat.pdf Go to page 10 and 11 and there you see. Edited by Gomah |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 06:53 |
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thanks for the info, as they say here in America, don't quit until the fat lady sings hahahahha. Matches the info I've found Thanks Gomah! Ivan, are you are good at following your own advice as you are giving it. Edited by micky |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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TheLamb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 18 2005 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 416 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 09:56 |
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Sorry to disturb your private conversation, micky and Ivan, I'd just like to note that Fragile was released in November 1, 1971 in the UK and Europe, but in the USA it was held back two months to Januray 4, 1972, because of the still uprising momentum and popularity of The Yes Album in the USA, which was released on March 1971 if I remember correctly..... I think because the fact that Atlantic Records is an american company, the official release date is considered January 1972, because that's the USA release date.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 11:19 |
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Still have my doubts, because I have the 2003 reissue of Relayer and literally says:
It mentions UK RELEASE 1972 not USA, clearly states UK, and it's the album. Jon Anderson's site says:
Another one:
Now, here you can find another one:
Yes Now, even more:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ms g00360.html Another Bristih site:
1972
Blue Oyster Cult - Blue Oyster Cult Still all the sources I check reveal it's from 1972, but the most important is the album which clearly states UK 1972. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but still all the reliable sources (Including Prog Archives) confirm it's a 1972 album in UK. Still and even when i admit the chance of a limited edition previous to the release (What is not proved), it's not enough to reach the charts in in 1971 (Less in USA), and there's no way it was released in September 1971 as Micky said. Iván Edited by ivan_2068 |
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Gomah
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2005 Status: Offline Points: 152 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 16:37 |
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Iván I highly appreciate your attempts to prove your point, that makes a good lawyer out of you. But you know man, you missed the point here: High frequency of weak evidence specially on the internet does not make the evidence strong even if you present it in BOLD. All I’ve seen from you in this argument with Micky and me is that you keep on repeating yourself and mentioning web sites. I love Progarchives, but that does not mean what is written there is absolutely correct. The information is either from other web sites, as is the case for lots of web sites which just present other web sites information without referencing (and that’s a feature of internet you cannot avoid), or from the CD or LP sleeves and all of them are prone to mistakes or (careless) omission of facts. The information I presented is not just another web site regurgitating the other, it’s more like witnesses who own or have seen those LPs testifying about the release date. While that information might be still erroneous, I think it is stronger than what you present; you simply don’t put an LP in a rare music auction and claim it’s is 1971 while it is not, because you have to deal with picky collectors. Also there are lots of web sites that exactly mention that Atlantic 2401-019 LP was first released in Nov 1971 and even there is an academic article in which it mentions that: (Ac)cumulative Form in Pop-Rock Music, MARK SPICER, Twentieth-Century Music, Volume 1, Issue 01, March 2004, pp 29-64:
And before you pick on that, yes, there is a 12" LP called "Wonderous stories" released in Sep. 1977. And if you want to know about Dr. Mark Spicer: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/~music/facultybios/spicer.shtml And yes, it did reach the charts in 1971 in UK: Ok, I think I said enough. Seriously, I am not going to spend any more time on this arguement. Edits: I downloaded the above article and changed the part to reflect what is exactly in the article. Edited by Gomah |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 16:44 |
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Nursery Cryme is the better album - it's not by Yes. QED.
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Fritha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 10 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 471 |
Posted: December 30 2005 at 17:54 |
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In regards to the release year of Fragile, if you have the remastered King Crimson album, Islands, you will find a print that shows the chart from a (music?) paper, dating back to December 18 1971, and it clearly has Fragile charted at number 4. If this isn't reliable, what is?! LOL As for the actual topic of this poll, I don't exactly love either of these records, but I guess I have more fun when listening to Nursery Cryme.
Edited by Fritha |
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I was made to love magic
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Nursery Cryme vs Fragile
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micky wrote:
