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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 7341
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Topic: Jazz/fusion of the Soft Machine Posted: January 05 2006 at 11:57 |
Many times people bash the Soft Machine for becoming a straitforward Jazz/fusion band after they played psychedelia. While I do prefer the early softs, the fusion albums are really good, and imo have a certain intensity that is more 'rock' that the first three. Anyone agree?
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12795
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 14:21 |
The Wizard wrote:
Many times people bash the Soft Machine for
becoming a straitforward Jazz/fusion band after they played
psychedelia. While I do prefer the early softs, the fusion albums are
really good, and imo have a certain intensity that is more 'rock' that
the first three. Anyone agree?
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What is a straightforward "jazz/fusion band"? Especially when the
Machine effectively were the UK/European pioneers in the genre. In fact
listening to two European fusion albums today, the forthcoming No Jazz and Garcias-Fons Trio's Arcoluz albums, and nothing in these is straight forward.
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The Wizard
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Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 7341
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 17:00 |
^ that's actually a really good question.
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Hendrix828
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 63
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 18:14 |
Well the 70's Softs are good if you're into fusion. But to me,after Wyatt left,they became a straight Jazz group,barely even fusion.
Listen to their Berlin Jazztage show from late 71 (a bootleg) just right after Wyatt left,and I consider that more jazz than fusion. It was obvious before they even strated work on Third,that Hopper and Ratledge wanted to become a more jazz based group. It really became obvious when they even let Wyatt stop singing and turned "Moon In June" into a complete instrumental in the later Wyatt period.
Wyatt should of took the "Soft Machine" name with him when he left That's my 2 cents
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 20:11 |
I think their albums are all pretty good, especially the early wyatt period and jenkins period
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12795
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 20:20 |
Hendrix828 wrote:
Well the 70's Softs are good if you're into
fusion. But to me,after Wyatt left,they became a straight Jazz
group,barely even fusion.
Listen to their Berlin Jazztage show from late 71 (a bootleg)
just right after Wyatt left,and I consider that more jazz than fusion.
It was obvious before they even strated work on Third,that Hopper and
Ratledge wanted to become a more jazz based group. It
really became obvious when they even let Wyatt stop singing
and turned "Moon In June" into a complete instrumental in the later
Wyatt period.
Wyatt should of took the "Soft Machine" name with him when he left That's my 2 cents |
1971 was a year of significant experimentation and line-up variations
for the Softs, so sampling a boot made of one concert would only be
typical of their music at that moment - for instance one line-up
was uniquely assembled for a single BBC radio recording . Check out Soft Machine BBC 1971 - 1974 to show the variety of changes and style- also read Graham Bennett's biog of the band.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 20:24 |
the soft machine of the first three albums are the only real soft
machineas an american head of the 6o`s and early 70`s amidst san fran
bands like quicksilver the dead jefferson airplane we didn`t really get
king crimson and soft machine i remember what got me about soft machine
was robert wyatt`s voice ingrained so deep that when i matured and
settled down later and played soft machine again that voice jumped out
right to the front are there older americans on the site who would
agree the american head of the 6o`s was not ready for soft machine i
would say for me soft machine really died when it lost that voice
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Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
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Points: 3577
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 21:34 |
I hate all the Jenkins-era bashing. Things had to change, Wyatt left,
it is was inevitable. I REALLY ENJOY the latter-period albums,
especially Softs. Sure, it's different, but you can't keep playing the same stuff, you gotta progress hence the term " Progressive." I don't think Bundles is anywhere as good as Softs. I even find myself listening to Land of Cockayne more than Bundles.
By the way, if any of you latter-period fans haven't heard Nucleus,
you should. There, you can see the transformation of Soft Machine,
seeing as many of the members of Nucleus went on to form later Softs
lineups. Allan Holdsworth even started playing with Nucleus before Bundles on the Belladonna album. If you're interested, PM me for more suggestions, information, and recommendations, although I have to say that Elastic Rock,
the first Nucleus album, is the best place to start exploring the band.
Jenkins did a lot of composing and writing on the album, whereas Carr
did not become the true "figure-head" (although in reality, he
was) until Solar Plexus.
I could go on forever.... .....
Thanks for starting a topic I am excedingly interested in
Edited by meurglysIII
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 22:16 |
meurglysIII wrote:
I hate all the Jenkins-era bashing. Things had to change, Wyatt left, it is was inevitable. I REALLY ENJOY the latter-period albums, especially Softs. Sure, it's different, but you can't keep playing the same stuff, you gotta progress hence the term "Progressive." I don't think Bundles is anywhere as good as Softs. I even find myself listening to Land of Cockayne more than Bundles.
By the way, if any of you latter-period fans haven't heard Nucleus, you should. There, you can see the transformation of Soft Machine, seeing as many of the members of Nucleus went on to form later Softs lineups. Allan Holdsworth even started playing with Nucleus before Bundles on the Belladonna album. If you're interested, PM me for more suggestions, information, and recommendations, although I have to say that Elastic Rock, the first Nucleus album, is the best place to start exploring the band. Jenkins did a lot of composing and writing on the album, whereas Carr did not become the true "figure-head" (although in reality, he was) until Solar Plexus.
I could go on forever.........
Thanks for starting a topic I am excedingly interested in
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thank you for that
I am big fan of SM (75-78) and Nucleus, and overshadowed band
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12795
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 07:56 |
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Froth
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 461
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 12:31 |
I dont have any of the Softs albums after Third but they sound really good. How can any band with players like John marshall, Karl jenkins, Hugh Hopper and of course the mighty Ratledge go wrong? Im definantley gong to get hold of 4, 5 and 6, ... having said that though, i heard bits from bundles and it sounds god awful
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 13:58 |
I know that after Wyatt left the band is not classic soft machine music any more, but if you are a fusion/jazz fan you got to love their later masterpieces 4/5/6/7/bundle and soft these albums are essential if you love fusion.
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 18:32 |
My favorite album is Bundles by all means!!!!
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carefulwiththataxe
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 19:39 |
Strangely, I know a lot of people who much prefer their post-wyatt
fusion stuff. I was under the impression that liking Vols 1 and 2 best
put me in the minority of proggers...
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Tholomyes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 338
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 20:20 |
I prefer much more the jazz/fusion "era" or the post-wyatt (only Third) . and I don't really like Volume 1 and 2 wich are their best according to PA.
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: February 08 2006 at 00:28 |
Trouserpress wrote:
Strangely, I know a lot of people who much prefer their post-wyatt fusion stuff. I was under the impression that liking Vols 1 and 2 best put me in the minority of proggers... |
no I II and III are pretty much agreed upon as the "classic" SM albums
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Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: February 08 2006 at 00:48 |
NetsNJFan wrote:
Trouserpress wrote:
Strangely, I know a lot of
people who much prefer their post-wyatt fusion stuff. I was under the
impression that liking Vols 1 and 2 best put me in the minority of
proggers... |
no I II and III are pretty much agreed upon as the "classic" SM albums |
Yes, those are indeed the most essential and classic. The best album
post-Third is Softs for me, sheer brilliance, as I probably stated
earlier in the thread.
Edited by meurglysIII
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty
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