its because Pavlovs Dog were not British |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Topic: its because Pavlovs Dog were not British Posted: March 03 2006 at 15:33 |
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I consider myself a Pavlov's Dog fan, I even wrote the Biography of them for PA (Something I would have never done if I didn't liked their music) and rated very high Pampered Menial (4 stars), but there are some questions to answer:
If it wasn't for David's voice (Something a lot of people hate), they would have only been a "C" class band with nothing really special, and probably felt into AOR.
Sadly I'm a fan, but I try not to be blinded by my taste (It's easier to be subjective and like something withoout questions or analyze, but that's not my case). Edited by ivan_2068 |
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 15:13 | |||
Surkamp`s voice was definitely a handicap. Whever Ithrow either balbum
on the turntable I try and block out his vocals. I don`t know if
anyone out there would agree with me but Bruford doesn`t even sound
like Bruford on the one track he plays on.
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 14:54 | |||
I will check them out as well. Seem to have flown under my radar all these years. I just went back and found Touch for some great early (1969) American prog. |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 14:42 | |||
Cool, a civilized thread... I was even thinking in purchasing at least the 1st album, but the reference to Piaf's voice froze me. In fact, I like Edith Piaf but her voice is totally dated and extremely feminine, however I'm fed up to hear it from a male singer, since we have some of these singers here in Brazil and they annoy me a lot. |
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Guigo
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eugene
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 30 2005 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 11:54 | |||
I would agree with Song Dance till some extent. Pavlov's Dog is a very good band, and voice of Surkamp is absolutely unique, but not for everyone's taste. I personally like it very much. It reminds me in moments about greatest female vocaliste of all times Ms. Edith Gaston (Piaf). Yes, this band is underrated, but I don't think it would help if they were British... |
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carefulwiththataxe
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 11:51 | |||
Song Dance thanks for the thoughtful thread and welcome to pa. Lately
we have had a rash of new posters who start negative threads. Back to
the topic, I need to dig out the old stuff and give it a spin.
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 11:02 | |||
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19618 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 11:01 | |||
OK!! I take that back Welcome on site |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:59 | |||
You gave the second CD 2 stars and I`ll admit the second lacked something the song "did you see him cry" is the bulk of the substance here .. I`d give this CD 3 stars as there are bits and pieces I like I agree with everything you have said all but that prog related remark |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19618 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:48 | |||
Here are my reviews, so you get a chance to see why I state my views as such
PAVLOV'S DOG Pampered Menial — One of those very cherished debut album and certainly a real pearl in the Archives, Pavlov’s debut is one of those records that almost everyone should have, be they progheads or not. Out of the blue, the US Midwest actually pulled two real surprises as in the heartland of Country Rock, and Country-western, came Kansas and this completely unexpected Pavlov’s Dog. Needless to say that Surkamp’s incredible voice is the main asset, but it is hardly the only one. This is an album laced with loads of keyboards of every kind, but although the main feature, they never suffocate the music even if the mellotrons are mixed-in very LOUD. Don’t look for long epics on this slice of vinyl, as the longest track is just above the 5 min track (actually the record is fairly short, clocking in at less than 34 min), but Surkamp’s histrionics on vocals coupled with lush mellotron waves, underlined by a cool violin and Hamilton’s organs, synths and pianos, provide all the necessary drama a proghead is searching for.
This is maybe one of the most accomplished songwriting effort as there is so much happening on the different songs that you could not fit one more note without overflowing the bucket - well they are 7 in P’sD - and destroy the fragile beauty of this album. Most of you have heard Julia, but as you go down the rest of the album, there should at least two more tracks every proghead above 35, will have heard: Surkamp’s voice almost resembling Grace Slick in the Jefferson Starship (and believe me this is one hell of a compliment) in Late November, and the violin/mellotron/guitar short duel in Song Dance should ring a bell, too. But all is not perfect on the album as I find that the pure RnR number Natchez Trace has a strange but not entirely convincing mellotron overdose (except in the middle break). One of the other slight remark I have, is that the quick succession of those relatively short tracks is rather diluting the contents a bit, as I would’ve rather they exploit some tracks/ideas to the fullest, something they only seem to achieve on Preludin/Of Once And Future Kings duo (7 min combined), but by that time, the record is almost over! Frustrating is it not? The following album At The Sound Of The Bell is usually also very appreciated by progheads, but my opinion is that it does not come to the waist-height of this one, and if it was not for the two lengthier tracks (both just above the 5 min mark too) and Bill Bruford’s guest appearance, it would not even reach ankle-height. Back to this album though, I always wondered if this album did not have loads of mellotrons, would it be so much appreciated by us progheads? Not that sure!!! But there are plenty of shivers on this album. PAVLOV'S DOG At the Sound of the Bell
Review (Permanent link) by Hugues Chantraine @ 3:40:56 AM EST, 8/16/2005 SPECIAL COLLABORATION — As their debut album had struck a chord in most proghead's heart (and not just the progheads, too as we can see by the sales figure) , most fans will claim this second album as good as the first one. Alas! Not true at all! Most of the songs on here are of non-prog caliber , hovering sometimes between soft rock (Bread , America ) , country rock (Eagles) and AOR. True thay this album as well as the first are very radio-friendly , but let's face it, not much on this album is prog bar the last track on each vinyl side. Yes , Did You See Him Cry is a full-blown prog tracks with superb Mellotrons, excellent drumming (thanks Bill!) and a shining example of what these St Louis residents could do! Valkyrie pales a bit compared to that track but is still progressive albeit with that catchy hook line "Bring Back The Good Old Days", one must be careful not to link it with the rest of the album. Because the rest of the album is simply sub-par and not progressive , although flawlessly played , these could've been on Bread albums. Really even a star-studded guest list can't help this album from sinking....... |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:40 | |||
Pavlov's were complex at times you only need to listen to tunes like Preludin or did you see him cry to verify this claim, and Pavlov's pushed symphonic boundaries as well they merged beauty and bombast into the one song with clever thought provoking arrangements and insightful lyrics sung with feeling .... Trust me Pavlov's dog deserve to be here (and not as prog related) more than 50 % of the bands here deserve to be here, the scary thing is out of the 50% there are some pretty big named bands I question should be here ??? but thats not part of this discussion. Pavlov's Dog were far from prog related they were in fact progressive rock personified, and its ashame that it was recognized by more people because I think they had huge potential Edited by Song Dance |
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:26 | |||
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19618 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:18 | |||
Just a second here!!!!! OK, their Julia hit has done them not much good for their prog reputation, but take away the Mellotrons orgies away from their debut, what is left that is typically prog? Not that much!!!! as for their second one... only two tracks are prog, the rest I will not even touch the following albums (I only heard third once) So if it was up to me P'sD would be in prog-related But I love them mellotron orgies, like any other proghead following his lower instincts |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Dr Know
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 10 2006 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 532 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:16 | |||
I remember a friend playing this album for me. He said Once you hear this you will be hooked! Needless to say I bought At the ring of a bell and Pampered. A unique band and a unique voice. Didn´t Bill Bruford play drums for them?
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ANDREW
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 21 2005 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 3064 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 09:55 | |||
I think Pavlov's dog must be about the most underrated prog band in the history of prog, its ashame they don`t get more attention. I agree, sadly underrated!!! "Pampered Menial" is one of the best album of the seventies!!! |
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 09:55 | |||
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Phil
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 09:53 | |||
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 09:50 | |||
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Phil
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 09:46 | |||
Song Dance, is no-one taking you seriously?
I don't know about the fact they were American, I think Surkamp's vocals were just a bit too much of an acquired taste for many! I liked Pampered Menial, never heard any much of their other stuff.... |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: March 03 2006 at 09:45 | |||
No.......its not STRICTLY the topic, but, can a bands name change its chances of success? |
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