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B3Nut View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Types of Electric Organs
    Posted: April 21 2006 at 09:19
Ah yes, Thijs Van Leer...extremely musical player.  He's not showoffish at all, kind of an anti-Emerson. :)  Peter Bardens (rest his soul) from Camel was another player like that, amazing taste.  Van Leer got a lot of music out of the L-100, Live At The Rainbow (hey, L-122 again!) is brilliant. 

Vail did an OK job with what he had to work with, but some revisions would be in order.  It's still a nice coffee-table book to have around, it can be helpful in explaining one's Hammond obsessions to puzzled visitors. :)  They will get to you though, you'll start prowling estate sales and such for them.  They turn up in wierd spots too, especially in the US given Americans' propensity to throw things away they don't understand.  Witness the M-102 I found in someone's trash in Madison, or the Hamtech list member who recently found an A-100 and 122 in someone's trash!  Talk about a good save...I shudder to think of these machines going into a garbage truck and being smashed!

Todd in Beerbratistan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2006 at 03:14
   This is splendid - not only has B3Nut completely clarified the age of my little beastie (giving me plenty of trivia to bore my friends with even more than usual), but there's also a possibility that Dave Greenfield used the same model as I own... others I've seen using my setup include Tjis Van Leer from Focus (Old Grey Whistle Test 1972)and Keith Emerson (a very battered version in a film I saw of him playing in The Nice).

All I need to do now is to learn to play better than I actually can... which is very little at present!

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2006 at 17:49

Originally posted by B3Nut B3Nut wrote:

I see you're in England, the L's were very popular over there.  If it has pedal sustain, that would make it an L-122S.  Pedal sustain was an option installed by the European importers (in this case, Boosey & Hawkes).  The Belgian Hammond distributor did this as well, offering options not available on US-sold instruments.  They even made an A-100 with pedal sustain.  Microtechnica in Italy assembled Hammonds, and Boosey&Hawkes had an operation in South Africa assembling them as well.

Your L-122 would have to be post-69, it has the large HAMMOND logo with the stylized "H" (that didn't appear until around 1970).  So, 1971 is about right.  In 1966 they went from the small font to a large font, then around '70 went to that even larger blockier font with the big H logo.  My L-112 had the post-'66 large font, as does my '67 M-102 (which I found alongside the road on its back with someone's garbage...I wasted no time rescuing the poor mutt!  Still needs a little work yet...)

European Hammonds were, with the exception of the B-3 (which had a complicated-to-manufacture cabinet), assembled in Europe with the cabinetwork made locally.  The guts were shipped as "tray organs" from the plant in Chicago.  This saved a lot of shipping costs.  Leslie did the same thing, European Leslies had locally-made cabinets with only the amps/motors/drivers/hardware coming from Pasadena.

Todd in Beerbratistan (pet name for the state of Wisconsin, the enchanted land of brats, beer, and cheese :D )

Thanks for the clarification, B3Nut.

Me too was a little suspicious about the 1964 date but was thinking if Mark Vail,who is supposed to be a vintage keyboards specialist write that date in his book,this date must be accurate.I was wrong.I'm not a specialist on Hammond organ and takes my informations on the "Beauty in the B" book and from a former Hammond dealer where I went very often as a kid.

Personnally, I had an Hammond L-112 with the stylized "H" and large Hammond logo,so it must be post-69.Thanks for the infos,that's very interesting.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2006 at 16:10
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Incidentally (and as I'm too lazy a bugger to look it up myself) does anyone know the organ used by Dave Greenfield on The Stranglers' early albums?


I once saw a photo of him playing an L-122, but I've never heard the records so I'm not sure. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2006 at 16:08
I see you're in England, the L's were very popular over there.  If it has pedal sustain, that would make it an L-122S.  Pedal sustain was an option installed by the European importers (in this case, Boosey & Hawkes).  The Belgian Hammond distributor did this as well, offering options not available on US-sold instruments.  They even made an A-100 with pedal sustain.  Microtechnica in Italy assembled Hammonds, and Boosey&Hawkes had an operation in South Africa assembling them as well.

Your L-122 would have to be post-69, it has the large HAMMOND logo with the stylized "H" (that didn't appear until around 1970).  So, 1971 is about right.  In 1966 they went from the small font to a large font, then around '70 went to that even larger blockier font with the big H logo.  My L-112 had the post-'66 large font, as does my '67 M-102 (which I found alongside the road on its back with someone's garbage...I wasted no time rescuing the poor mutt!  Still needs a little work yet...)

European Hammonds were, with the exception of the B-3 (which had a complicated-to-manufacture cabinet), assembled in Europe with the cabinetwork made locally.  The guts were shipped as "tray organs" from the plant in Chicago.  This saved a lot of shipping costs.  Leslie did the same thing, European Leslies had locally-made cabinets with only the amps/motors/drivers/hardware coming from Pasadena.

Todd in Beerbratistan (pet name for the state of Wisconsin, the enchanted land of brats, beer, and cheese :D )
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2006 at 03:16
Originally posted by B3Nut B3Nut wrote:

Actually, Vail's book isn't 100% accurate.  The L-100 series continued to be built well into the early 70's....


Thanks B3Nut, I couldn't see this little beauty sitting around for 7 years before being sold, especially given their popularity in the late '60s.

Originally posted by B3Nut B3Nut wrote:

That's a really nice L-122 there, that's my favorite L-100 series cabinet style.  I love my little L-100, doesn't do some of the things my B-3 does but it has its own unique vibe, and taken on its own terms is an expressive little instrument.  I love being able to route the reverb through the Leslie, you can get spacey sounds doing that! :)Todd in Beerbratistan


Also, at some point in its life a variable bass pedal sustain unit has been professionally fitted. The control knob for this can just about be seen to the right of the control tabs; strange modification really, given that my Hammond has only ever had home use.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2006 at 13:29
Originally posted by pierreolivier pierreolivier wrote:

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

OK then - my very own 1971 Hammond L122 with Leslie 145

 

Hi Jim,

You have a very beautiful organ and a very fine leslie.Just a little rectifier,you say that your organ was made in 1971 but according to the Hammond book "Beauty in the B" by Mark Vail,all the L models were produced between September 1961 and July 1964 so your organ may be older than you think.



Actually, Vail's book isn't 100% accurate.  The L-100 series continued to be built well into the early 70's.  I had a '67 L-112 at one point, some of its parts are in my '63 L-100.  Vail's book has a lot of nice pictures, but there are errors.  The Hammond Age List has this error in the L-100 list heading, but there are plenty of post-'64 organs represented and the serial number data are accurate. 

The age list can be found at http://www.prevailingwinds.net/agelist/agelist.php  and there is a link to the Hammond-Leslie FAQ at www.hamtech.org (mailing list for organists and techs, I've been a member since '95, an eternity in net-time! :D )

That's a really nice L-122 there, that's my favorite L-100 series cabinet style.  I love my little L-100, doesn't do some of the things my B-3 does but it has its own unique vibe, and taken on its own terms is an expressive little instrument.  I love being able to route the reverb through the Leslie, you can get spacey sounds doing that! :)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2006 at 07:43
Incidentally (and as I'm too lazy a bugger to look it up myself) does anyone know the organ used by Dave Greenfield on The Stranglers' early albums?

Edited by Jim Garten

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 13:46
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by pierreolivier pierreolivier wrote:

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

By the way, Pierreolivier - I've just ordered a copy of "Beauty In The B"; sounds like the perfect book for an old saddo Hammond anorak like myself...


Yes sir!,that's a beautiful book.You won't be dissapointed.





I'm not! What a book - I can now bore all my friends even more with Hammond lore; an example: did you know that before inventing the Hammond Organ (or "electric flute", as he called it originally...), Laurens Hammond invented the self shuffling/dealing bridge table

Yes, I've seen the photo in the book.It's quite a weird looking table.I shown the photo to my father,who is an amateur bridge player and he was quite fascinated by the table altrought he say that it's a kind of gadget.Apparently, the table sold very well and the price was something like $25, in the depression era it was a lot of money for something luxurious.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 03:26
Originally posted by pierreolivier pierreolivier wrote:

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

By the way, Pierreolivier - I've just ordered a copy of "Beauty In The B"; sounds like the perfect book for an old saddo Hammond anorak like myself...


Yes sir!,that's a beautiful book.You won't be dissapointed.





I'm not! What a book - I can now bore all my friends even more with Hammond lore; an example: did you know that before inventing the Hammond Organ (or "electric flute", as he called it originally...), Laurens Hammond invented the self shuffling/dealing bridge table

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 03:23
If it's all the same to you, professor, I'll stick to my trusty steam driven bakelite 1960's vintage heart - these new plexiglass & chrome jobs are all very well for fancy "look how many beats per minute I can get" prog-metal fans, but for us purists (especially those of us who still smoke), the organic feel of a trusty (crusty?) old valve (with properly diseased arteries) warms the cockles of your heart...

+++cough+++

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2006 at 17:26

Shocked= Electric organs?

Aw... have a heart!

 

There ya go, Jimminy! Big smile

Dig the beat! Cool



Edited by Peter
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2006 at 09:28
Yes, it's from the Lighthouse Keepers performance, my mistake!  I was thinking of the later date for some reason.

Sorry for the confusion.

This is obviously the case too, as the E112 was not in use in 1975.


Edited by Geck0
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2006 at 04:04

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Here are some screen shots of Hugh Banton playing with VdGG in Belgium in 1975:


Oooohhh - that E112 is a beast!

++drool++

yes, but those pictures are not from the 75 Godbluff concert , but from the 71 TV special on the same DVD, I think

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2006 at 03:58
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Here are some screen shots of Hugh Banton playing with VdGG in Belgium in 1975:


Oooohhh - that E112 is a beast!

++drool++

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 14:35

A few years ago I wrote a review in a Dutch progrock magazine about the aforementioned Hammond book by Mark Vail, it's recommended to every Hammond aficionado!

 

MARK VAIL – THE  HAMMOND ORGAN (Beauty in the B)

(Miller Freeman, 1997, US $ 24,95, ISBN 0-87930-459-6)

There has always been a strong relationship between progressive rock and the Hammond organ: this powerful and varied instrument fits perfectly to the alternating and dynamic music that good progressive rock features, from Colosseum, The Nice and ELP to Spock’s Beard, Ars Nova or very recently Niacin. This book (240 pages) is presented by the known magazine Keyboard with a foreword by their editorial director Dominic Milano. It’s layered with photos from all kinds of Hammond organs (from the legendary B3 to Model A and C, Grand 100, the ‘spinets’  L and M and the colossal X-77) and some exciting pictures from Keith Emerson and other ‘Hammond aficionados’ like Tom Coster and  Rod Argent. Chapter 7 contains tips from famous players like Jimmy McGriff, Keith Emerson and Paul Shaffer, popular B-3 drawbar configurations like the ‘ELP - and Argent sound’ and the  “Green onions” groove and known Hammond licks. Some chapters are a bit technical for the average ‘proghead’ (buying and maintaining, vital statistics and details about all the known Hammond organs) but most chapters are at least interesting like the story about the inventor Laurens Hammond. He started with clocks, an automatic bridge table and a 3-D viewer and then invented the tone wheel mechanism of the Hammond organ! Of course this book contain a chapter about the Leslie speaker, the ideal combination with a Hammond organ. Also included is a comprehensive list of adresses (also E-mail and Internet), a Hammondology (instruction video’s and sampling CD’s) and a glossary (from the words “envelope” and “spinet” to “vibrato”). Reading this book was fun and excitement for me because it’s written fluent with lots of fine details and it’s not too technical, typcial Hammond sounds like ‘drawbars’ and the ‘key-click’ are explained very clearly. So I would like to recommend The Hammond Organ to all ‘progheads’ who wants to know more about the instrument that sounds so well and distinctive on ‘classic recordings’ like “A whiter shade of pale” from Procol Harum,  “Child in time” from Deep Purple, “Pictures at an exhibition” from ELP, “Tomorrow night” from Atomic Rooster or “Close to the edge” from Yes.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 13:04
Here are some screen shots of Hugh Banton playing with VdGG in Belgium in 1975:
















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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:13

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

By the way, Pierreolivier - I've just ordered a copy of "Beauty In The B"; sounds like the perfect book for an old saddo Hammond anorak like myself...

Yes sir!,that's a beautiful book.You won't be dissapointed.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 03:41
By the way, Pierreolivier - I've just ordered a copy of "Beauty In The B"; sounds like the perfect book for an old saddo Hammond anorak like myself...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 03:33


Cheers Geck0, interesting roundup of Banton's gear:

"He then finally completed HB1. This contained the original Hammond keyboards and generators from the E112, coupled with three new build electronic generators sets intended to provide all the Farfisa sounds and more.
The American RTR cabinets utilised 24" bass speakers, which reproduced 32-foot (16Hz) organ tone."


That must have been some beast - the E112 was not what you could call a compact organ in the first place...

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