| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
jojim 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 155
|
 Topic: Where to put CHICAGO?
Posted: March 23 2006 at 17:49 |
|
In a few threads I discussed where the group CHICAGO is belonging to. For me the first 3 or 4 Albums are prog. I have some sheet music of their 2. album. That is pretty complex. And the first album and the third are pretty heavy stuff. Not for normal listeners. - A thread answer last week told me: "CHICAGO is not prog - go to another forum."
I cannot understand why CHICAGO should not be progressive. Only because they use elements of jazz and a few trumpets? For me they always had the incredients of more than rock-jazz. Their guitarist TERRY KATH is not for Christmas evening.
Is there anybody who will second this thougt?
For me it is - in the same breath - absolutely not clear what a group like RUSH is doing in the archives. What makes them prog and the early CHICAGO not.
|
|
YES - Close to the edge / UK - UK / GENESIS - The lamb lies down / KING CRIMSON - Discipline / MIKE OLDFIELD - Tubular bells / JETHRO TULL - Aqualung / GENTLE GIANT - Three friends / TMO - IMF
|
 |
stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 17:56 |
Far away from me. 
|
|
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 18:00 |
Topic: Where to put CHICAGO?
In the bin.
|
|
|
|
Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 18:01 |
In the right section for starters.... 
|
|
JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
Status: Offline
Points: 10063
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 18:03 |
|
I love most of Chicagos songs (esp, 25 or 6 to 4), but i dont think they belong here.
|
|
|
|
jojim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 155
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 18:17 |
 Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
I love most of Chicagos songs (esp, 25 or 6 to 4), but i dont think they belong here. |
 That is exactly my question! Why not. What is wrong with CHICAGO. The trumpets, the measure, the drummer. Their Debut Album was very revolutionary concering the lyrics. Nothing with love and so. And their music was the same. Perhaps here in the forum there are not many people knowing the music of the early CHICAGO. GENESIS cannot be sized as prog after "ABACAP". The same with CHICAGO. They became a hitgroup after 1978. Where to put them?
|
|
YES - Close to the edge / UK - UK / GENESIS - The lamb lies down / KING CRIMSON - Discipline / MIKE OLDFIELD - Tubular bells / JETHRO TULL - Aqualung / GENTLE GIANT - Three friends / TMO - IMF
|
|
Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 18:58 |
|
Pfffff, I don't like the negative responses.
Chicago were Prog through thier fourth album, Live at Carnegie Hall, which is excellent by the way. After that, they had their moments, in Seven for instance (just listen to "Devil's Sweet," "Prelude/Aire"). After Seven,
it was all downhill so to say. Although I enjoy much of their
commercial releases, I still think that increaseingly got worse,
especially after Terry Kath died. The 80s stuff is fun, catchy pop with
brass arrangements and nothing else. I stopped liking them after 19, 21
is just bloody awful. And no, I don't think they should be included,
considering only like 20% at most of their ouput can be considered Prog
according to the site.
|
|
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 19:03 |
Zac M wrote:
Pfffff, I don't like the negative responses.
|
You know what they call that don't you?
Tough!
|
|
|
|
The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 19:09 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Zac M wrote:
Pfffff, I don't like the negative responses.
|
You know what they call that don't you?
Tough! |
Zac MSpecial Collaborator
 
Canterbury/Jazz-rock specialist Joined: July 03 2005 Location: United States
Online Status: Online Posts: 1791 =
|
|
|
|
Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 19:11 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Zac M wrote:
Pfffff, I don't like the negative responses.
|
You know what they call that don't you?
Tough! |
Ok..........I was just posting what I thought.........man, I haven't
talked to you forever and you post something that seems a bit negative,
not very friendly.......guess things have changed around here.....
|
|
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
|
|
TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 20:38 |
|
I think Ian was joking Zac.
|
|
|
|
Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
|
Posted: March 23 2006 at 20:44 |
TheProgtologist wrote:
I think Ian was joking Zac.
|
Probably, I've just been a bit on the edge lately, really stressed out. I think I exaggarrated a bit. Sorry about that Snowy.
|
|
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
|
|
richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26140
|
Posted: March 24 2006 at 02:50 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Topic: Where to put CHICAGO?
In the bin.
|
Because of 'If You Leave You Now' I agree.Too much crud although '25 or 6 to 4' is a great rock track.
|
|
Trotsky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 25 2004
Location: Malaysia
Status: Offline
Points: 2771
|
Posted: March 24 2006 at 03:27 |
The Miracle wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Zac M wrote:
Pfffff, I don't like the negative responses.
|
You know what they call that don't you?
Tough!
|
Zac M
Special Collaborator
Canterbury/Jazz-rock specialist
Joined: July 03 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Online
Posts: 1791
|
Another way of looking at it!
Seriously, I have heard from many people that the first three studio albums from Chicago are worthy of consideration, but I myself am not in a position to comment ... I can say that the songs I've heard (on compilations) that date from this era are interesting, although as singles, they are not likely to be the most progressive cuts ...
Needless to say by the late 70s (Robert Lamm actually blamed it on the dual combination of Kath's death and the success of If You Leave Me Now) ... Chicago had become largely a stale pop band with a brass section ... I think the thought of all those Peter Cetera ballads being included on this site is just too much for many people to handle!
|
|
"Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.”
"No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present."
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: March 24 2006 at 04:08 |
Zac M wrote:
TheProgtologist wrote:
I think Ian was joking Zac. |
Probably, I've just been a bit on the edge lately, really stressed out. I think I exaggarrated a bit. Sorry about that Snowy.
|
I'm sorry too Zac.I guess your "Pffffff" touched a nerve.
But seriously....................in the bin!
|
|
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: March 24 2006 at 04:11 |
richardh wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Topic: Where to put CHICAGO?
In the bin.
|
Because of 'If You Leave You Now' I agree.Too much crud although '25 or 6 to 4' is a great rock track.
|
I haven't heard 25 or 6 to 4, but I played my wifes "The Heart Of Chicago" last night to check them out.
Anyone seriously want me to add them to the list?
|
|
|
|
Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
|
Posted: March 24 2006 at 04:12 |
|
|
|
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
|
|
Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12798
|
Posted: March 24 2006 at 06:19 |
Snow Dog wrote:
richardh wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Topic: Where to put CHICAGO?
In the bin.
|
Because of 'If You Leave You Now' I agree.Too much crud although '25 or 6 to 4' is a great rock track.
|
I haven't heard 25 or 6 to 4, but I played my wifes "The Heart Of Chicago" last night to check them out.
Anyone seriously want me to add them to the list?
|
First four plus 7? are brass rock (or rock jazz), which I have argued long and hard is a subdivision of jazz rock. However, when a band is proud to have all their album from their third called 3 through to 25 (and no doubt beyond!!) and hardly done brass rock on record in a quarter of a century but gone for the complacent AOR market, it is difficult to justify them here.* As ever the PA system requires that bands are either completely in or out, with no flexibility to admit bands listing valid albums only but leaving the invalid out.
Checking BST out, their discography indicates far greater consistency and better justification for being here - but BST will have to wait until somebody wants to submit their case.
In the meanwhile consider (but a list written with a strong sense of here we go again):
If
Satisfaction
Heaven
Chase
Ides oF March
Dreams
Average White Band
Glueleg
Cold Blood
Tower Of Power
Funkadelic
Kelvynator
Brecker Brothers Band
Morrisey Mullen Band
Hubbards Cupboard
No Jazz
etc.
* although many would argue the same for Beatles, Purple and Queen
Edited by Dick Heath
|
|
JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
Status: Offline
Points: 10063
|
Posted: March 24 2006 at 08:31 |
Snow Dog wrote:
richardh wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Topic: Where to put CHICAGO?
In the bin.
|
Because of 'If You Leave You Now' I agree.Too much crud although '25 or 6 to 4' is a great rock track.
|
I haven't heard 25 or 6 to 4, but I played my wifes "The Heart Of Chicago" last night to check them out.
Anyone seriously want me to add them to the list?
|
Man, thats a great song! You should give a listen. sounds proggy, but again, i really dont think they belong here, for some reasons i cant spell out. . i have that Heart of Chicago CD... not mine actually, but my girlfriend's
|
|
|
|
ANDREW
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 3064
|
Posted: March 24 2006 at 08:53 |
Dick Heath wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
richardh wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Topic: Where to put CHICAGO?
In the bin.
|
Because of 'If You Leave You Now' I agree.Too much crud although '25 or 6 to 4' is a great rock track.
|
I haven't heard 25 or 6 to 4, but I played my wifes "The Heart Of Chicago" last night to check them out.
Anyone seriously want me to add them to the list?
|
First four plus 7? are brass rock (or rock jazz), which I have argued long and hard is a subdivision of jazz rock. However, when a band is proud to have all their album from their third called 3 through to 25 (and no doubt beyond!!) and hardly done brass rock on record in a quarter of a century but gone for the complacent AOR market, it is difficult to justify them here.* As ever the PA system requires that bands are either completely in or out, with no flexibility to admit bands listing valid albums only but leaving the invalid out.
Checking BST out, their discography indicates far greater consistency and better justification for being here - but BST will have to wait until somebody wants to submit their case.
In the meanwhile consider (but a list written with a strong sense of here we go again):
If
Satisfaction
Heaven
Chase
Ides oF March
Dreams
Average White Band
Glueleg
Cold Blood
Tower Of Power
Funkadelic
Kelvynator
Brecker Brothers Band
Morrisey Mullen Band
Hubbards Cupboard
No Jazz
etc.
* although many would argue the same for Beatles, Purple and Queen
|
IF is a great jazz-rock/prog band!!!
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Where to put CHICAGO?
