Where to put CHICAGO? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Fragile

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Posted: March 24 2006 at 08:55

Is it the 1st of April today?????!!!!!!!!

rockandrail View Drop Down

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Posted: March 24 2006 at 09:12

Chicago is in the American Middle west in a state called Illinois. This is the best place to put Chicago. I would suggest on lake Michigan shores.

Pierre R, the man who lost his signature

Chicapah

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Posted: March 24 2006 at 09:40

Deep Purple started out Prog, then went totally commercial rock. Chicago did the same, they just went ballad-heavy. They should go where Deep Purple is in the forum. Otherwise, half the bands on this site should be dropped. (I guess that's another can of worms to open. Or not.)

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Peter

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Posted: March 24 2006 at 10:46

Not here, anyway.

Dead Other than some of their earliest stuff, you can put their sappy, crappy albums here:

Edited by Peter

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Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

video vertigo View Drop Down

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Posted: March 24 2006 at 15:27

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp

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bsurmano

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Posted: March 24 2006 at 15:37

Dick Heath has said it right. Chicago's first four albums deserve kind of prog attention. Their cover of Spencer Davis' '' I'm a man '' (from 'Transit Authority' album) is really brilliant in jazz-rock/prog terms, but later work shows some other directions taken. This Chicago question inevitably raises then BST theme and so on..

From Dick's list I would like to point out that despite a lot of recent '' IF '' discussion, and full and unanimous support of all forum participants for this band to be included in Prog Archive, unfortunately , so far , nothing happened. And Prog Archive without IF...Let's do something about it.

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I know every scene by heart, they all went by so fast.....
Either I'm too sensitive or else I'm gettin' soft.'

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Syzygy

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Posted: March 24 2006 at 16:27

rockandrail wrote:

Chicago is in the American Middle west in a state called Illinois. This is the best place to put Chicago. I would suggest on lake Michigan shores.

I was going to to make that joke!!!!

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

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Witchwoodhermit View Drop Down

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Posted: March 25 2006 at 22:40

Early Chicago is great stuff and deserves to be here. Their later work is more adult contemporary and should not be included here.

Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.

Empathy

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Posted: March 25 2006 at 23:39

Syzygy wrote:

rockandrail wrote:

Chicago is in the American Middle west in a state called Illinois. This is the best place to put Chicago. I would suggest on lake Michigan shores.

I was going to to make that joke!!!!

, so was I!

That pic of Peter Cetera in the smoking jacket with the dog is just painfully hilarious.

anthamatten View Drop Down

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Posted: February 06 2007 at 20:39

If the first and second album are not prog then Genesis first album (the one before Tresspas) and their latest album (Calling ...) are not prog either. But we agree that Genesis has contributed to prog rock. - So what's the problem with Chicago. They made 3 records of prog. Point final.

A

Be the one of my dreams

Chus

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Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:38

Dick Heath wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

richardh wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Topic: Where to put CHICAGO?

In the bin.

Because of 'If You Leave You Now' I agree.Too much crud although '25 or 6 to 4' is a great rock track.

I haven't heard 25 or 6 to 4, but I played my wifes "The Heart Of Chicago" last night to check them out.

Anyone seriously want me to add them to the list?

First four plus 7? are brass rock (or rock jazz), which I have argued long and hard is a subdivision of jazz rock. However, when a band is proud to have all their album from their third called 3 through to 25 (and no doubt beyond!!) and hardly done brass rock on record in a quarter of a century but gone for the complacent AOR market, it is difficult to justify them here.* As ever the PA system requires that bands are either completely in or out, with no flexibility to admit bands listing valid albums only but leaving the invalid out.

Checking BST out, their discography indicates far greater consistency and better justification for being here - but BST will have to wait until somebody wants to submit their case.

In the meanwhile consider (but a list written with a strong sense of here we go again):

Satisfaction

Heaven

Chase

Ides oF March

Dreams

Average White Band

Glueleg

Cold Blood

Tower Of Power

Funkadelic

Kelvynator

Brecker Brothers Band

Morrisey Mullen Band

Hubbards Cupboard

No Jazz

etc.

* although many would argue the same for Beatles, Purple and Queen

I had indeed... BST had a great bunch of complex songs that IMO overtake the more radio-friendly ones (being good pop songs too).... songs (or versions) like the Variations of a Theme By ES, the Rolling Stone's "Sympathy For The Devil", the pseudo-mediaeval "The Battle", "40000 Headmen", etc... their late 70's output is equally very interesting (if not more)... if jazz-rock is a category, why aren't bands like BST or IF (finally heard some great samples

) in it?... I could also make a case about Chicago but their prog material is less extensive, limited to their first 4 albums and the rest of their vast discography destined to AOR

EDIT: just realised the post was made before I made the suggestion... the term "brass rock" was brought up..

Edited by Chus - February 06 2007 at 21:47

Jesus Gabriel

tuxon

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Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:52

I love the more rocking songs like I'm a Man and 25 or 6 to 4, but those dudes rocked when in their prime and continued with beautifull stuff long after.

if they were prog however i doubt, though indeed the first 4 albums suggest they where.

there should always be a place for beauty within the narrow confines of a home.

I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: February 06 2007 at 23:23

Then Boston also please!!!

Chicago IMO was never Prog, interesting first 2 albums yes but Prog no way.

Iván

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Posted: February 07 2007 at 00:06

[QUOTE=Ivan_Melgar_M]

Then Boston also please!!!

Chicago IMO was never Prog, interesting first 2 albums yes but Prog no way.

Iván

Jumping into the fire.

Yeah, Ivan, Boston sure.

Maybe we could have a threesome. Throw in Rush and Triumph, and we can have a big fat, who can squeal louder than the local alley cats competition.

How about a loose fan belt? Is that prog too?

Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: February 07 2007 at 00:39

Witchwoodhermit wrote:

[QUOTE=Ivan_Melgar_M]

Then Boston also please!!!

Chicago IMO was never Prog, interesting first 2 albums yes but Prog no way.

Iván

Jumping into the fire.

Yeah, Ivan, Boston sure.

Maybe we could have a threesome. Throw in Rush and Triumph, and we can have a big fat, who can squeal louder than the local alley cats competition.

How about a loose fan belt? Is that prog too?

Thanks, you're encouraging me to ask Toto also

BTW; Boston was just sarcasm

Iván

Witchwoodhermit View Drop Down

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Posted: February 07 2007 at 01:06

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[QUOTE=Witchwoodhermit][QUOTE=Ivan_Melgar_M]

Then Boston also please!!!

Chicago IMO was never Prog, interesting first 2 albums yes but Prog no way.

Iván

Jumping into the fire.

Yeah, Ivan, Boston sure.

Maybe we could have a threesome. Throw in Rush and Triumph, and we can have a big fat, who can squeal louder than the local alley cats competition.

How about a loose fan belt? Is that prog too?

Thanks, you're encouraging me to ask Toto also

BTW; Boston was just sarcasm

Iván

Well, now I just feel silly.

Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.

Chus

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Posted: February 07 2007 at 16:52

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Then Boston also please!!!

Chicago IMO was never Prog, interesting first 2 albums yes but Prog no way.

Iván

Bad analogy Ivan... if you were to take late Genesis as an example then perhaps (great example of bands which the majority of their songs were pop).. but Boston never had (to my ears anyway) anything progressive released; Chicago's first albums had. Why not include them if they were an important part of the jazz-rock (brass rock section) subgenre (in the early days there was them and BST; although I make a stronger case for the latter)

Jesus Gabriel

Witchwoodhermit View Drop Down

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Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:22

^^^Um, I think Ivan already said Boston was sarcasm.

Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.

Chus

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Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:25

Witchwoodhermit wrote:

^^^Um, I think Ivan already said Boston was sarcasm.

I know, just making my point

Jesus Gabriel

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: February 07 2007 at 20:43

Chus wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Then Boston also please!!!

Chicago IMO was never Prog, interesting first 2 albums yes but Prog no way.

Iván

There's no comparison between Genesis and Chicago.

1.- Genesis during their Prog years was an icon, a pioneer of Prog Rock, the most influential band ever in the genre (That's a fact, most Neo is Genesis inspired in higher or leser degree) Chicago is essentially an adult Pop band that influenced no Prog band.

2.- Genesis has seven 100% studioProg albums:

Trespass
Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
SEBTP
The Lamb
ATOTT
Wind & Wuthering

Two partially Prog albums

ATTW3
Duke

One Pop album with Prog elements

ABACRAP

Four non Prog albums one with at least one bad or good Prog song:

Shapes
Invisible Touch
We Can't Dance
FGTTR

One Hybrid

So 9 out of their 14 studio albums are PROGRESSIVE ROCK while only 5 are not Prog (Counting ABACRAP as non Prog), this means 65.7 of Genesis studio albums albums are Prog while 35.3 are non Prog.

The argument of more Genesis Pop songs is as Bald Friedre would say: A FALACY, beoing that Prog Tracks in average are 3 times longer than Pop tracks

Genesis has three 100% Prog Live albums

Live
Seconds Out
Archives I

Two partially Prog:

Three Sides Live (Third partially and full fourth side UK version)
Archives II

And two or three non Prog live albums with a couple of Prog tracks

Most of their stuff is Prog and iconic Prog.

3.- Chicago on the other hand has 30 albums numbered, several box sets and CVDs, out of them only one is remotely related to Prog Related, maybe two or three and 27 are PLAIN POP, this means that at the most 10% of their releases are remotely Prog Related.

4.- Boston plays AOR which is a conservative POP evolution of Prog, I believe there's much more in common between two essentially mainstream Pop Aorish bands and one of the biggest 5 Prog bands of history.

Why that obsession of adding remotely Prog Related bands instead of worrying about 100% Prog ones not here?

My 2 cents.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 07 2007 at 20:46