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moshkito View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 18:27
Hi,
 
To all you folks ...
 
I have decided NOT to do reviews, for this space.
 
I had requested some suggestions from one member, and I really didn't get any suggestions -- I was merely wondering what he thought -- and in the end, he did do one right thing, and that was to clarify that the reviews needed to be done individually.
 
What I had written for Carmen - is going to my website instead.
 
There is a time and place, when writing something is better if it does not follow an established guideline, and I was having a hard time separating the albums with the review and it felt a lot better and more interesting when the whole "story" went together.
 
My idea, it appears, is not what is wanted in the website.
 
It will be extremelly difficult to write single album reviews for a lot of these artists. Specially when thigns are so different and far out and totally out in left field ... and usually only a reviewer with the same type of feelings can give that artist his/her due.
 
I'm born in Portugal, and lived in Brazil. A LOT of that music Carmen wrote is very dear to my heart, because it is almost an inexplicable inner feeling, that one hardly has words for ... but enough tears to live through it. I really wanted to place something in there meaningful and important, and hopefully valuable, but simply taking a piece of a man's mind, and displaying it as meat in the supermarket is not what I was looking for to do with Carmen and its albums.
 
Sorry about that folks ... but maybe it is better for the "prog" experts to create something for it, but it is with heavy heart that I will not share my words on this with you.
 
I don't think that I can write a review for any of my list above and am removing it. All my writings and feelings, and poems, and reviews, come from a "sacred" place, if you will, that likes its freedom and its appreciation, and is not willing to let go of the original, and very important, feeling for what "progressive" music meant when it started. I want to be as one with those people, and simply writing a review about some "prog" ideal, is not my idea of appreciating an art, a love ... that barely has words I can use to describe it.
 
Sorry for my poetical and teary write up, but I'm not sure you all know, care, or understand, how important the "art" and the "beauty" behind some of these things really is for me. The same for "krautrock", but I seriously doubt anyone is even going to ask for me to join that group and add the artistic stuff to the information ... even though all of you know I would dearly love to do this.
 
Thx a bunch


Edited by moshkito - March 04 2011 at 18:38
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com
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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 19:59
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I had requested some suggestions from one member, and I really didn't get any suggestions
And I explained why, so don't dump this on me. Stern Smile
 
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

My idea, it appears, is not what is wanted in the website.
Wrong. Your idea cannot be accommodated by this web site - whether we want it or not.
 
I'm sorry that we cannot adapt the site to suit your personal preferences - with 1000s of reviewers all contributing reviews to this site we cannot accommodate each and every desire of each and every member who wants to write a review.
 
Each person gets one review per album, one album per review.
 
That's the way it is because that is how the site is structured. It is a physical limitation of the database that stores the reviews. We cannot change that on a whim just because one person wants to review four albums in one review.
 
I can understand that you don't want to adapt to our simple approach, so perhaps you could extend us the courtesy of understanding that we cannot adapt the site to your approach and lay off this emotional guilt trip.
 
ffs Stern Smile 


Edited by Dean - March 04 2011 at 20:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 20:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2011 at 18:55
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

... 
I can understand that you don't want to adapt to our simple approach, so perhaps you could extend us the courtesy of understanding that we cannot adapt the site to your approach and lay off this emotional guilt trip.
 ...
ffs Stern Smile 

Well, I could easily say ... I'm just being my progressive self by trying to ease up the restrictions and the limitations ... it's what the friends that we love so much did ... but we're now old, and afraid to experiment, so we compartmentalize it all and segregate it into a description, so it "fits" our ideas ... and in the end, that hurts new artists and people with new ideas.

PA is still the best, but ... one thing that we don't know is ... it's just a database ... and anything can be done with it IF we want to ... or some folks are willing to spend that extra minute to make the database better, or more flexible ... I realize we don't all get paid for this time and effort, but then neither do I ... and what I do, I do out of love and care, including my writing.

No worries, Dean ... even the best out there, went looking for something else, and they eventually got it! ... and it's why we call them "progressive" ... so, go ahead, be my guest and shut the door! 

Creativity is important. Adhering to a theme, idea or concept, is just an idea. Creativity, has nothing to do with ideas, until someone stands aside and tries to break it down.

And NO, I would not dream of thinking that your response was bad ... it just helped define me better inside, regardless of how I am supposed to feel. Somewhere along the way, there has to be respect for that ... just like there was no respect for a lot of "progressive" music, because the "it" is not flexible enough. The database could not careless if you linked something to this or that or here or there ... it's all the same for the database engine! Just think where KC, ELP, Genesis, Yes would be today if they had compromised at the time ... just think ... and any others!


Edited by moshkito - March 06 2011 at 18:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2011 at 20:23
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

... 
I can understand that you don't want to adapt to our simple approach, so perhaps you could extend us the courtesy of understanding that we cannot adapt the site to your approach and lay off this emotional guilt trip.
 ...
ffs Stern Smile 

Well, I could easily say ... I'm just being my progressive self by trying to ease up the restrictions and the limitations ... it's what the friends that we love so much did ... but we're now old, and afraid to experiment, so we compartmentalize it all and segregate it into a description, so it "fits" our ideas ... and in the end, that hurts new artists and people with new ideas.
Well, I'm old, I'll give you that, but nothing else. I have wisdom to accept that not all ideas are usable (that's not to say they are not good ideas), if we adopted every idea proposed to us this site would fail, it would be a complete mess that would never the same two days running. You have been here long enough to see the chaos that ensues after every minor change (and if you haven't then... where have you been?).
 
Don't mess this up with arguments over categories and descriptions - they are irrelevant and nothing to do with how albums are reviewed - you can review In The Court Of The Crimson King the same regardless of how it is categorised or where it is segregated - if we choose to call it "Clever Baroque Ballards" and file it under "Albums with a pink label" does not affect the music on the album, it does not affect how you hear it and it certainly does not affect how you review it. When you walk into a forest you can still look at the trees.
 
And... How exactly does this affect new artists?
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


PA is still the best, but ... one thing that we don't know is ... it's just a database ... and anything can be done with it IF we want to ... or some folks are willing to spend that extra minute to make the database better, or more flexible ... I realize we don't all get paid for this time and effort, but then neither do I ... and what I do, I do out of love and care, including my writing.
Yup, it's just a database -  361,238 reviews and ratings correlated against 31,270 albums by 32,543 members over the past 7 years in just a database - should changing that just require a mere minute of effort? Perhaps, perhaps not - you are guessing and perhaps underestimating, then perhaps I am overestimating, or overstating, but this is more than just the man-hours of effort required to make the change. [Of course the Owner can change it to do anything he wants, if he so desires - he desires it just the way it is - that's not lack of progression or even a lack of will - that's spending 7 years developing a system that works for 32,542 members]. Change is easy - the Management of Change is a more difficult task, and the first step on that path is forging the desire to change in the people with the power to effect the change, then in the people who will have to execute the change, then finally in the people who will have to work with the change... the tail does not wag the dog.
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


No worries, Dean ... even the best out there, went looking for something else, and they eventually got it! ... and it's why we call them "progressive" ... so, go ahead, be my guest and shut the door! 
There is no door to shut - it's a wicket gate you can enter or walk away from. Cerberus doesn't live here.
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


Creativity is important. Adhering to a theme, idea or concept, is just an idea. Creativity, has nothing to do with ideas, until someone stands aside and tries to break it down.
Ideas are ten a penny - you have an idea I'll give you 50 in return (seriously, it's not difficult) - creativity is knowing what to do with those ideas; rejecting an idea is as creative (or progressive if you prefer) as Michaelangelo rejecting a block of marble because it didn't contain a "David".
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


And NO, I would not dream of thinking that your response was bad ... it just helped define me better inside, regardless of how I am supposed to feel. Somewhere along the way, there has to be respect for that ... just like there was no respect for a lot of "progressive" music, because the "it" is not flexible enough. The database could not careless if you linked something to this or that or here or there ... it's all the same for the database engine! Just think where KC, ELP, Genesis, Yes would be today if they had compromised at the time ... just think ... and any others!
KC, ELP, Genesis, Yes et al compromised all the time, on every track on every album (even Moonchild) - nothing they produced was unfettered and unrestrained - let's not kid ourselves on just how progressive their progressive music was even in 1969/70/71/72, (clue: not very).


Edited by Dean - March 06 2011 at 20:27
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ozzy_tom View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2011 at 03:39
There is one annoying bug according to "first review" function. If some album was rated by somebody (but without any review), and later another person really write a review for this album, there is no "first review" message reward :-(. Seems that PA system treats all ratings as proper reviews, I think it's stupid. Making only a rating takes only couple of seconds, while writing a review not.
Person who really wrote FIRST REVIEW should receive this "first review" message even if somebody previously rated this particular album. This is my opinion anyway...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2011 at 03:46

This does not really matter in the long run, Ozzy_Tom. Ratings without reviews does not matter that much.  

The most important is that any first review should really include a proper description of the music. That is not so important for the 1066th review of Selling England By The Pound where ooooh's and aaah's is welcome. But the first review of an album places some extra responsibilities on the shoulders of the reviewer.

But I do applaud your passion here so I give your post full marks. Clap  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2011 at 21:39
Hi,
 
One more to remove from the list ... I'll see about more as I go along ...

ASH RA TEMPEL Music Reviews


Showing last 10
 Join Inn / Starring Rosi by ASH RA TEMPEL album cover Boxset/Compilation, 1998
3.83 | 3 ratings

BUY
Join Inn / Starring Rosi
Ash Ra Tempel Krautrock

Review by moshkito

4 stars Songs / Tracks Listing 1. Freak'n'Roll (19:15) 2. Jenseits (24:18) 3. Laughter Loving (8:00) 4. Day Dream (5:21) 5. Schizo (2:47) 6. Cosmic Tango (2:06) 7. Interplay Of Forces (8:58) 8. The Fairy Dance (3:07) 9. Bring Me Up (4:33)

Total Time: 78:25

This is a re-release of the previous two albums that had appeared in 1973. The CD is cleaned up a little, but it does not offer anything new or better than the original LP's when they first came out. The first two cuts are the Side 1 and 2 of the "join Inn" LP. The rest is all the material from the "Starring Rosi" LP.

... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2011 at 05:07
Originally posted by ozzy_tom ozzy_tom wrote:

There is one annoying bug according to "first review" function. If some album was rated by somebody (but without any review), and later another person really write a review for this album, there is no "first review" message reward :-(. Seems that PA system treats all ratings as proper reviews, I think it's stupid. Making only a rating takes only couple of seconds, while writing a review not.
Person who really wrote FIRST REVIEW should receive this "first review" message even if somebody previously rated this particular album. This is my opinion anyway...
 
Clap
 
I agree 100% and I've brought this up myself in the past. As far as I know this has been discussed by the SCs but I don't know what the upshot was of that discussion. As torodd says, the most important thing for the PA site is that people post informative first-reviews, and that's absolutely fine. However, for individual members I think the First Review of this Album message is a nice little reward... otherwise why have the message at all? Given that it is so easy to rate multiple albums, maybe this is an issue that could be looked at again...  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2012 at 01:03
Definitely the message should appear when a first proper review is published. Respect.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2012 at 07:47
Originally posted by seventhsojourn seventhsojourn wrote:

Originally posted by ozzy_tom ozzy_tom wrote:

There is one annoying bug according to "first review" function. If some album was rated by somebody (but without any review), and later another person really write a review for this album, there is no "first review" message reward :-(. Seems that PA system treats all ratings as proper reviews, I think it's stupid. Making only a rating takes only couple of seconds, while writing a review not.
Person who really wrote FIRST REVIEW should receive this "first review" message even if somebody previously rated this particular album. This is my opinion anyway...
 
Clap
 
I agree 100% and I've brought this up myself in the past. As far as I know this has been discussed by the SCs but I don't know what the upshot was of that discussion. As torodd says, the most important thing for the PA site is that people post informative first-reviews, and that's absolutely fine. However, for individual members I think the First Review of this Album message is a nice little reward... otherwise why have the message at all? Given that it is so easy to rate multiple albums, maybe this is an issue that could be looked at again...  
yes totally agree, I remember this being discussed in the past and I think it was more of a "technical" issue that needed to be resolved

maybe someone can enlighten us whether there has been any progress in this?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2012 at 10:38
It's not something that we can report progress on (or anyone can expect a report for). Either Max fixes it or he doesn't - nothing "we" can do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 04:06
The album "The Fall Of Bliss" from the Greek project METHEXIS also doesn't appear on the list.
thank you in advance!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 04:10
Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

Originally posted by seventhsojourn seventhsojourn wrote:

Originally posted by ozzy_tom ozzy_tom wrote:

There is one annoying bug according to "first review" function. If some album was rated by somebody (but without any review), and later another person really write a review for this album, there is no "first review" message reward :-(. Seems that PA system treats all ratings as proper reviews, I think it's stupid. Making only a rating takes only couple of seconds, while writing a review not.
Person who really wrote FIRST REVIEW should receive this "first review" message even if somebody previously rated this particular album. This is my opinion anyway...
 
Clap
 
I agree 100% and I've brought this up myself in the past. As far as I know this has been discussed by the SCs but I don't know what the upshot was of that discussion. As torodd says, the most important thing for the PA site is that people post informative first-reviews, and that's absolutely fine. However, for individual members I think the First Review of this Album message is a nice little reward... otherwise why have the message at all? Given that it is so easy to rate multiple albums, maybe this is an issue that could be looked at again...  
yes totally agree, I remember this being discussed in the past and I think it was more of a "technical" issue that needed to be resolved

maybe someone can enlighten us whether there has been any progress in this?
 
...as far as I remember Max said something about difficulties seperating ratings and ratings with review. But maybe itīs just not a priority.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 04:15
Originally posted by Art-Rocker Art-Rocker wrote:

The album "The Fall Of Bliss" from the Greek project METHEXIS also doesn't appear on the list.
thank you in advance!
? Which list ?
 
Fal Of Bliss has 1 review and 3 ratings : http://www.progarchives.com/album-reviews.asp?id=35092 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 14:17
There's one thing that annoys me when I'm reading the album pages (of the lesser known ones). And I'm certainly not in the minority... For example, right now I was looking at the tribute albums and saw that an interesting Van der Graaf Generator tribute had SEVEN (high) ratings but ZERO reviews.

I just can't get it: why isn't everybody feeling like doing a great and HONOURABLE favour by simply giving some needed information and evaluation of an album that has no reviews? What's the use of ratings if any of those raters don't write a single word about the album? WHY, OH WHY? On the whole I have nothing against ratings without reviews (I can't say I have much respect for them either), but every time I see these cases of multiple ratings without a single review, I wonder what on earth these people were thinking.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 14:42
^ Rating takes a few seconds, writing a good review needs mood, time and inspiration. I guess people giving ratings only don't have these ingredients at once.
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 17:17
Well, it's also a bit of the chicken and egg situation: if I bump into an album that no-one has ever bothered to review, or even grace with a rating, the first thing that comes to my mind is, invariably, 'Why should I listen to something that no-one seems to have been interested in?'. There is SO MUCH music out there; as Steven Wilson correctly stated, 99% of it is just bad, and life is too short to check out every opus by every Joe the Progger. 

Edited by Argonaught - February 28 2013 at 17:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2013 at 00:33
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Well, it's also a bit of the chicken and egg situation: if I bump into an album that no-one has ever bothered to review, or even grace with a rating, the first thing that comes to my mind is, invariably, 'Why should I listen to something that no-one seems to have been interested in?'. There is SO MUCH music out there; as Steven Wilson correctly stated, 99% of it is just bad, and life is too short to check out every opus by every Joe the Progger. 
This argument is valid if you have not listened to the album, but we have to assume that people who rated it have listened to it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2013 at 05:05
Isn't it possible that when someone gives a rating without a review to an album that hasn't been reviewed yet, that he/she gets asked to post a review as well, just like people get asked to reconsider every time they vote with five or one star? It might make people more aware of the need.
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