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Topic ClosedLED ZEPPELIN
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Poll Question: should LED ZEP be included in PR??
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34 [43.04%]
26 [32.91%]
19 [24.05%]
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Arsillus View Drop Down
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Points: 7374 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2006 at 16:54
No!
 
Led Zeppelin is a great band, but not prog. As I've heard some other member(s) echo, this is PROG archives, not GOOD MUSIC archives. All prog is good music (except neo Wink), but not all good music is prog.
 
 
 
 
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Points: 31165 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2006 at 17:01
Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

No. I love them to bits, but they don't belong here. The whole prog related thing is a joke IMO, and they're not prog enough to pe in proto prog. They influenced hard rock and metal by far more than they did prog.


My sentiments exactly.  I've always felt "prog-related" could get out of hand very quickly.

I think this site could use a big disclaimer of some sort: "PROG is not a badge of honor, it's a method of describing/classifying music.  There are many outstanding bands who are not classified as prog; this does not detract from them in any way."

No offense to whoever this was, but someone posted a few days ago "Boston is my favorite band - why aren't they listed here?"  See what I mean?  It's like this place is a musical country club - "what, you're saying my favorite band isn't good enough to get in?"  Need to find a way to quell this sentiment.


Edited by NaturalScience - June 19 2006 at 17:02
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Points: 848 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2006 at 17:49
Maybe if we capped the number of bands who could be allowed in........then for every band we wanted to include, as long as we could agree on an ejection..........although that does sound like the first step on the way to "Prog Brother".........Wink
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2006 at 23:17
I don't mind LZ inclusion.
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Points: 3278 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2006 at 05:13
Why would they be included? They are one of the greatest rock bands but they are in noe way prog.
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Points: 18292 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2006 at 05:14
Some of their stuff is prog-like, but they are no prog band
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Points: 19943 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2006 at 07:52
As much as I love Led Zep, I don't think they're prog enough to be included here. However there is (at least) one prog site that has included them - http://www.progressiveears.com/default.asp?bhcp=1
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Points: 1881 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2006 at 08:59
No !!! Great band, some tracks that might lay claim to being proggy, but NO!!!!
 
As others have said, "prog" and "great" music are not necessarily one and the same. Just because they're great doesn't merit inclusion. Yes, I am fussed about it. They're basically a blues band with some rocky licks.
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Points: 4309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2006 at 14:07

Of course, as Prog Related.

They have a lot of Prog moments, like "Stairway To Heaven", "No Quarter", "Dazed And Confused", etc, etc .... all ALL the live jamming, like the live versions of "Dazed...", of 30 minutes or more. Just listen to them and tell me if they aren't Prog !!

And, if here are classic rock bands like Deep Purple and Queen (I agree about them of being Prog Related), why shouldn't Zep be here ? Confused
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Points: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2006 at 14:34
Live jamming doesn't make somebody prog. If it did, then DMB and The Grateful Dead would have to be here too, wouldn't they?

I vote no, because prog related can become a slippery slope. IMO, prog related is more for solo projects by prog artists that aren't quite prog (see Peter Gabriel, Jon Anderson, Rick Wright, Syd Barrett, David Gilmour, etc.) instead of artists that occasionally, sometimes have moments that are sort of prog. Queen are more prog than Zeppelin, if simply for Bohemian Rhapsody. (which I don't really like that much, but that's not the point)
 
Besides, Zeppelin mostly ripped off old Blues songs and played them louder and harder; and that's not very prog.
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Points: 848 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2006 at 14:54

I agree on the whole they weren't prog (so no entry here!)  And blues was their thing - that was the music they liked. But I would give them credit for progging up Dazed & Confused - especially live - raising it above a straight blues. Also, odd bits of PhysGraf were experimental - not just straight blues.

Not prog - but not far off.
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Points: 254 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2006 at 15:42
Maybe Prog Related but I'm not sure about it.
Deep Purple is not a Proto Prog or Prog Related or wherever and I think that Led Zep is more prog then Purple and both are hard rock bands with some prog elements.
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Points: 397 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 17:56
who cares. A good band is a good band.
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Points: 1509 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 23:43
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

i'm probably sticking my scrawny neck out here, but something's really buggin' me  -  what the boss would probably call a "sticky topic", but..... should LED ZEPPELIN be included in prog archive???? here's the evidence ; YOUR TIME IS GONNA COME, DAZED AND CONFUSED, THE BATTLE OF EVERMORE, STAIRWAY, THE RAIN SONG, NO QUARTER....  have a listen to those classic tracks and then tell me if they ain't  prog! if so i shall throw my prog hat into the river styx and hang my prog head in shame forever. Deep Purple are here and are a worthy, but less so, case than ZEP....so , YES, NO or WHAT...??!!!!!Confused


What is the greater prog album

Led Zeppelin IV
or
Foxtrot

hahahha.
 
Geeez, you sure make it hard don't you. Man, and I thought you were going to make it easy.
 
Oh well,..........................................................................damn, I guess I will have to side with Foxtrot OuchCry
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Points: 15783 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 03:25
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

They're not really prog, but I wouldn't be fussed if they were listed here. Excellent band with occasional strong prog leanings.



My thoughts exactly (though I voted for yes). They're much too influential to be left out. Perhaps we should consider a separate section for those classic late '60s bands like Zep, Cream and The Who that had some influence on the development of prog, at least as far as some seminal bands are concerned.
 
I feel the same way basically. Though I would lean more towards them not being included even as prog-related. They had many undeniably proggy moments, and were highly influential, but were mainly a rock band. Your idea of a seperate catagory is intriguing. I'm not sure how I feel about it.
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Points: 1320 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 17:15
I think they should be considered at least as "PROG RELATED".
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:34
Another factor speaking in favor of Zep's inclusion is that the bar for what is accepted as prog is fairly low in my opinion, I keep finding bands that are equally progressive and even less progressive than Zep around the archives.

The alternatives there are, in my opinion, are these:

1. Clean up the archives a bit and re-define the prog related category

2. Accept the fact that there already are too many not-so-progressive bands included, and include more such bands (Led Zeppelin for example).

3. Remove the whole prog related category completely (it might do unjustice to certain artists, but it would strangle the debate).

4. Start a sister site called "Slightly Prog Archives" and move bands like Queen there, and also add bands like Led Zeppelin.

Personally, I think that alternative one or three are the most reasonable.




Edited by Philéas - July 05 2006 at 18:55
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erik neuteboom View Drop Down
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Points: 7659 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:43
After adding The Beatles and ELO to this site, "Should Led Zep be included in PA?"  is a rethorical question, ........YES, this innovative heavy progressive band fully deserves an addition on this site Clap !

Edited by erik neuteboom - July 05 2006 at 18:44
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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:53
To call them "heavy progressive" is quite a long stretch. Like most people so far have said, they do have progressive moments and deserve to be included as prog related, but to actually call them progressive is a slight exaggeration.
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Points: 24391 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 05:34
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

To call them "heavy progressive" is quite a long stretch. Like most people so far have said, they do have progressive moments and deserve to be included as prog related, but to actually call them progressive is a slight exaggeration.


OK, but the same thing could be applied as easily to Queen or other bands. I know some people see red when faced with the equation  "if band X is here, so should be band Y" - however, to me at least, it makes perfect sense. One practical example: I've recently bought Wishbone Ash's "Argus" album. Great record indeed, but I really fail to see how it is proggier than a lot of Led Zeppelin's later output.

BTW, referring to your previous post, I would be very much in favour of Option 1 - a complete rethinking of the Prog-Related category, possibly with a space reserved with bands who have been influential or influenced by the prog movement when it was in full swing, or even later.
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