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Legoman View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Liquid Tension Experiment
    Posted: May 11 2006 at 18:48
I just wanted to argue the listing of Liquid Tension Experiment under Prog Metal.  Now, granted the genre of Prog Metal is pretty damn diverse as it is but I sincerely feel that this band is more Jazz/Rock Fusion.  Just about the only thing that makes me feel that this awesome power band of Tony Levin, John Petrucci and, of course, Mike Portnoy is the guitar work of Petrucci.  Obviously the guitar is metal as sh*t at some points but not all, and Levin's bass playing really isn't either.  Also, take into the account that there aren't any lyrics, another thing very typical of Prog Metal bands.  All and all I just really feel that this group has more Jazz/Rock sounds than Metal sounds.

Anyone agree?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 19:00
I pondered upon this long ago, when I saw them listed as prog metal here on the archives. I think both albums (LTE I and II) has lots of jazzy moments. Not as metalic as Tool, POS etc etc. but still progmetal. IMO, the presence of almost all of the members of DT placed it into prog metal category ( ignoring the music, and basing my thoughts on the membersEmbarrassed ). Hard to figure out actually and I get your point my friend, but for me, strictly speaking LTE is still a progmetal albumBig smile

Edited by Majestic_Mayhem - May 11 2006 at 19:27

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 19:21
Honestly...no.While there is some jazz fusion-ish moments on their 2 albums I think LTE are progressive metal.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 19:34
I love the two discs, because they're very very jazzy styled. But if you make a comparison, still they are more metal than Jazz Rock/Fusion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 19:34
I also think LTE are rather modern fusion than metal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 19:40
Thanks, axebearer eugene.  I still would like some more factual evidence.  Where I see how it COULD be Prog Metal I just don't see how it is MAINLY Prog Metal.  Portnoy and Levin both come from extreme Jazz based backgrounds.  Surely that is enought to outweight even someone of Petrucci's standing.

Again, Prog Metal is broad... just... maybe too broad.  Maybe we should suggest a Jazz METAL genre!


Edited by Legoman - May 11 2006 at 19:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 19:47
I would say that a modern fusion band is Planet X, but LTE is more Metal than Fusion moments IMO, but still has a lot of Jazz moments so i see why you think of LTE as a fusion band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 20:32
I thought there were very few metal moments (Acid Rain, Paradigm Shift) while the rest was a mishmash of styles...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 20:59
Originally posted by Legoman

Thanks, axebearer eugene.  I still would like some more factual evidence.  Where I see how it COULD be Prog Metal I just don't see how it is MAINLY Prog Metal.  Portnoy and Levin both come from extreme Jazz based backgrounds.  Surely that is enought to outweight even someone of Petrucci's standing.

Again, Prog Metal is broad... just... maybe too broad.  Maybe we should suggest a Jazz METAL genre!


I've always considered the incredible Cynic album "Focus" to be jazz-metal, or "death jazz" as I think one reviewer put it.  I just don't know if you could compile enough bands that could be considered as such to merit a separate sub-genre.  Therefore, prog-metal will have to do, but in my mind that's what reviews are for.  Write reviews for the LTE discs describing how jazzy they can be, and then visitors who check out those pages can be made aware.


Edited by NaturalScience - May 11 2006 at 20:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 02:39
Originally posted by Legoman

   Portnoy and Levin both come from extreme Jazz based backgrounds.


I'm sure I've never heard MP play anything jazzy.... he's a great rock/metal drummer... but jazz?

And LTE are prog metal, though there is the odd bit of fusion in there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 03:17

Originally posted by Legoman

Thanks, axebearer eugene.  I still would like some more factual evidence.  Where I see how it COULD be Prog Metal I just don't see how it is MAINLY Prog Metal.  Portnoy and Levin both come from extreme Jazz based backgrounds.  Surely that is enought to outweight even someone of Petrucci's standing.

Again, Prog Metal is broad... just... maybe too broad.  Maybe we should suggest a Jazz METAL genre!

Overweight Petrucci's standing..?

As it sounds, you claim that Petrucci is overly a 'metalhead', or the strongest metal-influenced among them. Petrucci is also a skilled Jazz player, with lots of influences coming from Jazz (you can clearly see that in his guitar playing).
Petrucci has the same jazz background as Portnoy has, so personally I think it is futile to 'blame' the case on Petrucci.


Edited by Suki - May 12 2006 at 03:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 03:52
I think alot oh jazz fans would be annoyed if it was classed as jazz fusion as the guitar is very metally, and all my jazz friends despise metal, don't know why, I love both. The sound is very very their. How bout Progressive Jazz Metal? I think it sould be done... ALOT...
Progressive: Intelligent music for intelligent people.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 04:03
Originally posted by Majestic_Mayhem

I pondered upon this long ago, when I saw them listed as prog metal here on the archives. I think both albums (LTE I and II) has lots of jazzy moments. Not as metalic as Tool, POS etc etc. but still progmetal. IMO, the presence of almost all of the members of DT placed it into prog metal category ( ignoring the music, and basing my thoughts on the membersEmbarrassed ). Hard to figure out actually and I get your point my friend, but for me, strictly speaking LTE is still a progmetal albumBig smile


I would have to agree with you on that one, very well covered.
It's Calling Me Back To My Home.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 04:36
It's definitely metal - hard as nails most of the time but it does have some jazz/fusion connection. MikeEnRegalia appropriately calls this style Metal Fusion - I'm amazed he hasn't posted here yet! Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 04:45
^ it's been a nice discussion so far and you said it all - no need for me to state the obvious.Wink

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 12 2006 at 04:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 04:48
While there is a hint of jazz in LTE, I really don't think that there's any reason to move them from the progressive metal genre.
 
Jazz/metal fusion does exist; check out the excellent Counter World Experience - Fractal for proof (though I don't think it's listed in the archives yet).
'Like so many of you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 05:08
Originally posted by Syzygy

While there is a hint of jazz in LTE, I really don't think that there's any reason to move them from the progressive metal genre.
 
Jazz/metal fusion does exist; check out the excellent Counter World Experience - Fractal for proof (though I don't think it's listed in the archives yet).


I think that they were referring to the metal subcategory (Technical/Experimental -> Metal Fusion) on my prog metal categories chart.

BTW: I added Counter-World Experience to the prog metal voting chart - have a look and feel free to suggest other bands that are not already listed:

http://www.ratingfreak.com/home/progarchives/progmetalchart.xhtml

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 05:18
Fusion Metal = very cool Cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 12:41
Who was the first band that came out with the idea of making Metal-Fusion?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 16:15
Originally posted by Legoman

I just wanted to argue the listing of Liquid Tension Experiment under Prog Metal.  Now, granted the genre of Prog Metal is pretty damn diverse as it is but I sincerely feel that this band is more Jazz/Rock Fusion.  Just about the only thing that makes me feel that this awesome power band of Tony Levin, John Petrucci and, of course, Mike Portnoy is the guitar work of Petrucci.  Obviously the guitar is metal as sh*t at some points but not all, and Levin's bass playing really isn't either.  Also, take into the account that there aren't any lyrics, another thing very typical of Prog Metal bands.  All and all I just really feel that this group has more Jazz/Rock sounds than Metal sounds.

Anyone agree?
 
You have my agreement.Thumbs Up
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