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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 09:40
Originally posted by Liquid Len Liquid Len wrote:

I'm their biggest fan (no really I am) but I don't think that TTWT is very good at all.
 

Sure it's better that WaW but what isn't? That's an horrible album ruined by Banks' keyboards.

 

From Trespass to ToTT are perfect!

 

 


I think you'll find many will disagree with you about 'WAW' Thats the first time I've heard that album reffered to as 'horrible'
     
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 21:16
 I saw them play most of W&W live and it was sensational. Admittedly the live sound was rawer and not so layered and 'produced' as the studio sound. So , for me , W&W holds a very important place in my personal GENESIS history. And isn't that the whole point? Different albums are associated with different stages of our respective lives ,they may invoke different memories whether more recent or in the past. We just don't listen to and analyse albums in a cold and clinical vacuum, do we? ATTW3 will have it's place in peoples personal histories which is part of the whole musical appreciation experience in my view. If for some, or many, it invokes sad or unpleasant memories because of what was happening to GENESIS and to prog. at the time then so be it. Many of us can still regard it as a good album for a wide variety of reasons and we do.
Looking still the same after all these years...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 00:13
Originally posted by Liquid Len Liquid Len wrote:

I'm their biggest fan (no really I am) but I don't think that TTWT is very good at all.
 
Sure it's better that WaW but what isn't? That's an horrible album ruined by Banks' keyboards.
 
From Trespass to ToTT are perfect!
 
 



"Ruined"? You don't like "Deep In The Motherlode," I take it? ATTWT (not TTWT) is a great album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 15:53
Originally posted by mrgd mrgd wrote:

So , for me , W&W holds a very important place in my personal GENESIS history. And isn't that the whole point? Different albums are associated with different stages of our respective lives ,they may invoke different memories whether more recent or in the past. We just don't listen to and analyse albums in a cold and clinical vacuum, do we?


Right on Mr. GD!

I'd like to add that I've noticed, among my prog friends in real life and the prog heads here on the forum, that it's very common to exaggerate the use of the brain when listening to music, what I mean (so as to avoid any smart-a** remarks Tongue) is to analyse, dissect, measure and think too much about the music, the complex timings, the fast guitar or keyboard playing, the complexity of a certain lyric or musical passage, etc. instead of just enjoying the music. I can do it at times, but for the most I just enjoy the shivers up and down my spine when listening to good music (ahhhh, Can Utility And The Coastliners, excellent!).

I feel it'd be a little like going to a gourmet Restaurant and while eating the meal, say something like: "The pH of this soup is off and I would have served it 20 degrees warmer, add 200 pmm of basil and 30 grs of potatoes less... this steak should have been prepared on a texturized iron surface, plus the  edges have been pyrolized, lacks more proteic texture and less papaine when treating the meat would have served it better... etc." There might be people like that too... but in this case I would think most people just eat, savour and enjoy, less brain involved, why not do the same with music more often?

Just a thought.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 17:36
Well, the way music affects the listener is purely subjective and '...and then there were three' is not exactly the most challenging, to listen to that is, of Genesis releases, is it? The band were already making more than a foray into maistream disposable pop tunes as epitomised by 'Follow you..'. There are a few exceptions on the album and my favourite is 'Many too many' which has a double-tracked lead guitar by Rutherford which is not too technical but very lyrical nevertheless. Still, though, it's an album which clearly gives an indication of future mainstream sh*te the band were to release on the unsuspecting (?) world throughout the 1980s. Having said that, the album is passable and a good Genesis introduction for those to whom the band's 1970s classic material would sound too complex.    
RELIGION IS HATE, RELIGION IS FEAR, RELIGION IS WAR,RELIGION IS RAPE, RELIGION'S OBSCENE,RELIGION'S A WHORE
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 18:00
Originally posted by Minkia Minkia wrote:

Well, the way music affects the listener is purely subjective and '...and then there were three' is not exactly the most challenging, to listen to that is, of Genesis releases, is it? The band were already making more than a foray into maistream disposable pop tunes as epitomised by 'Follow you..'.

Subjective it is, as I consider FYFM not disposable at all, as commented further back in this same thread. Challenging, complex? Should it be challenging or complex to be good? Not for me, necessarily, but you are right in presenting the record as an entry point for those not too familiar with Prog, otherwise I don't much agree with anything you said, but that's fine, as we all know.

Mogens
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 09:44
The best Genesis album. The quality is most consistent, with only "Scenes from a Night's Dream" that could easily be discarded.
 
One complaint, though: the piano sequence at the end of "The Lady Lies" is a rip-off of Yes: "A Venture" from The Yes Album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 11:31
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by tdreamer tdreamer wrote:

Isn't it quite strange that this album (ATTW3) sold better than any previous Genesis album. Maybe it was because Follow You Follow Me was a hit. IMO it is the last great record they done. I like it more than Duke and appart from two songs thought Abacab was dire. I can listen to Genesis post ATTW3 but IMO they lost the spark they had. My wife likes this album very much too and she doesn't like prog all that much.

My personal opinion on ATTW3 is that it is a very deep and dark album that is ideal for winding down to.


I always thought it was a very dark and moody album too. This is strange as I've heard it reffered to as a 'bright' album.. I find the whole package beautifully sad.

It's selling power must have been 'Follow you Follow me' It was the bands first top 10 hit, so I guess it was the first Genesis album to really catch the attention of the masses. Mike Rutherford has often said that women never went to Genesis concerts until 'Follow you follow me' came out.
    
Well, FYFM is the only Genesis song my wife likes!
Few females understands music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 16:47
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

"Ruined"? You don't like "Deep In The Motherlode," I take it? ATTWT (not TTWT) is a great album.
 
No I don't like Deep in the Motherlode at all I'm sorry and your idea of great and mine are obviously poles apart.
 
Confused 


Edited by Liquid Len - July 09 2006 at 16:48
Can you tell me where my country lies?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 16:52
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I think you'll find many will disagree with you about 'WAW' Thats the first time I've heard that album reffered to as 'horrible'
     
 
I'm listening to it again now (nth time in nearly 30 years) and I heard most of it played live at Earls Court, It still sounds horrible to me kind of cheesy!
 
Confused
 
Oh and I'm not a Gabriel snob, I think the preceding album is great.


Edited by Liquid Len - July 09 2006 at 16:54
Can you tell me where my country lies?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 18:28
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Although taste is subjective, I honestly cannot see how anyone can say that Abacab is a better album than ATTWT. 

...
 
With the exception of the fact that Dodo/Lurker kicks butt on anything in ATTWT, song for song ATTWT seems better thanb Abacab.
 
 
Well, I can understand if people would prefer Abacab, even if compositionwise ATTWT is better, if you'd look at the level of innovation. And Then There Were Three was Genesis taking a new road, but Abacab even more!
 
Personally, I prefer And Then There Were Three, and for me it's one of the best Genesis records. And... most of my friends, and me as well, really became Genesis / prog rock fans because of And Then There Were Three.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2006 at 12:58
    And Then There Were Three is my favourite Genesis album too. Surely Steve hacket's guitar playing is missed but Tony Banks keyboards on this album are brilliant. Even Phil's vocals are great (and he is not on my favourite vocalists list). This album is a MUST Have for any prog-rock fan and even any listener of good music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2006 at 13:22
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

    And Then There Were Three is my favourite Genesis album too. Surely Steve hacket's guitar playing is missed but Tony Banks keyboards on this album are brilliant. Even Phil's vocals are great (and he is not on my favourite vocalists list). This album is a MUST Have for any prog-rock fan and even any listener of good music.
 
Is it really prog? I never thought so. Must buy it and give it a new listen...
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2006 at 14:45
i prefer foxtrot
I still can't get how Dream Theater music is created by humans

Dream Theater in Monterrey, Mexico   03.03.06   Unforgettable
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2006 at 16:31
According to Progarchives ratings, I'd say And Then There Were Three is a 3 star album, good but not essential.  I'd say Duke is a bit better.  Abacab, on the other hand, is Genesis' worst album, and that's including every album Genesis ever recorded (all in my humble opinion).
 
I'd go as far as saying that ATTWT is probably the first neo prog album, and as such cannot be regarded as a bad album.


Edited by Melomaniac - August 01 2006 at 16:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2006 at 16:55

I'd agree that 'Abacab' is definitely the worst of their original run, but for me THE worst album they ever did is 'Calling All Stations'. After all that hyped up 'return to prog' rubbish I'd heard about it, what I heard was an album even worse than the Collins era MOR/AOR.

I wouldn't say ATTWT was Genesis' best album, but for me it does have a lot going for it. I find it more cohesive than W & W, despite the fact that had some of their best instrumental work ever.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2006 at 17:01
Actually people that have a mind and opinion of their own couldn't care less what whomever rates something. Abacab, their worst album? That's plain and simply BS, though I am sure most prog snobs will get back to me on this one, but that's fine, they are in the end just snobs LOL.

It's a great album and certainly ten times better than most the music that was coming out at that time in 1981. Now, just for the record, I certainly enjoy Foxtrot or Lamb Lies Down more than Abacab, but I still enjoy it as a change from time to time too and the whole record is fun to listen to. I doubt anyone can mention a similar record from anyone in 1981, they are completely original even when making shorter songs.

People that don't know much about music, haven't heard it, or deny themselves the chance to hear it, refer to "ratings" and such stuff, is that your case too Melo-mini-ac? If so, open your mind, listen and get an opinion of your own.

Mogens
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2006 at 17:14
The last album from them I like, but it is not a masterpiece, though
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2006 at 12:01
Originally posted by mgallard mgallard wrote:

Actually people that have a mind and opinion of their own couldn't care less what whomever rates something. Abacab, their worst album? That's plain and simply BS, though I am sure most prog snobs will get back to me on this one, but that's fine, they are in the end just snobs LOL.

It's a great album and certainly ten times better than most the music that was coming out at that time in 1981. Now, just for the record, I certainly enjoy Foxtrot or Lamb Lies Down more than Abacab, but I still enjoy it as a change from time to time too and the whole record is fun to listen to. I doubt anyone can mention a similar record from anyone in 1981, they are completely original even when making shorter songs.

People that don't know much about music, haven't heard it, or deny themselves the chance to hear it, refer to "ratings" and such stuff, is that your case too Melo-mini-ac? If so, open your mind, listen and get an opinion of your own.

Mogens
I bought Abacab some ten years ago, and tried as I might, I found it plain horrid.  I gave it enough spins to make my own opinion of it, believe me.  In the end I sold it to a used records store.  Just my taste!
About not knowing much about music, I will turn 32 this September and have been playing music since I was 10, and was already a Floyd fan at the age of 5, so I won't even bother with that.  Sorry that other people's opinions offend you that much !
 
Peace !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2006 at 17:30
    the run of the three!!!
...live for tomorrow...
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