prog rap?

Now for my personal views on the subject.

It has been said already, any kind of music can be progressive, so of course rap can be aswell. However, I think there will be a long while before prog rap artists get included in the archives. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure we'll ever have a prog rap section here. Don't get me wrong though, I have nothing against rap (certainly not if it's progressive!), and I have nothing against a possible inclusion of prog rap artists.

Finally, just a quick thought: It's important to let people like any kind of music. If one doesn't like a particular genre, one must still let other people like it.

Rocktopus is right. You are acting a little immature Ivan. No offense, just saying as it is. 

Rocktopus wrote: Be an open-minded hater all you want to, Ivan, and maybe just stay away from the thread? It starts with an innocent and valid question. My answer is yes, of course. All genres can be progressive. No intention of trying to get any Hip Hop included in the archives or anything. Again I'd like to reccomend Deep Puddle Dynamics: The Tate of Rain...Why Kneel . Its really the whole Anticon (nine of them) collective on one record. Not the most prog or experimental I've ever heard, just the best. It's intelligent, complex and ends with a multipart (five parts) suite.

      deep puddle is amazing, i purchased that album just over a year ago, if u want to check out some other prog rap albums, check out anything by anticon, they are all relatively good, but maybe try el-p's "fantastic damage", or the self titled album by 13&god both take soem getting used to, but when u get used to it, its pretty good....and to the person with the deltron reccomendation, good call

While some Rap might be called "progressive", I agree that it's neither "Prog" nor "Rock", and that's why it doesn't belong here. Metal and Jazz-Fusion are closely related to Rock, but any other sub genre like Country, Pop, Modern Electronic etc.. should be discussed elsewhere ... maybe on my website!

^ Sorry, I didn't know that.

The term "Prog Rock" is valid ... just listen to Yes, Genesis or any other classic Prog band. Classic Prog is based on Rock, and Rock in general is indeed the common element of all the bands in the archives (although some from Progressive Electronic and Post-Rock/Avant are stretching it quite a bit).

BTW: If you really insist that Classic Prog doesn't have anything to do with Rock, I guess it would be best if you created a separate thread.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: The term "Prog Rock" is valid ... just listen to Yes, Genesis or any other classic Prog band. Classic Prog is based on Rock, and Rock in general is indeed the common element of all the bands in the archives (although some from Progressive Electronic and Post-Rock/Avant are stretching it quite a bit). BTW: If you really insist that Classic Prog doesn't have anything to do with Rock, I guess it would be best if you created a separate thread.

I probably should, but seriously; sit down and listen to And You And I, Firth of Fifth, So Sincere, Starless and Pilgrims with open ears, and then point me to one single aspect of Rock n Roll music in any of that. It's not there in chordage, harmony, melody, structure or even timbre. It bears as much relation to The Rolling Stones as it does to Bob Marley, Tito Puente, Hank Williams or The BeeGees.

Reggae has drums, bass, guitar, keyboards and vocals, so...what's your point with that?

And yes, it fits with Rock in the broad sense, but I now see all these aspects of Rock in the more narrow and directly Blues-based sense being accepted as something neither worth commenting on in a band's sound, nor something that would make the band be considered less of a Prog band, "since after all it's called Prog Rock".

You can't have it both ways. Either it's Rock in the broad sense, in which case Rock n Roll and AOR aren't natural matches with Prog, but part of a hybrid. Or it's Rock in the narrwo sense, in which case I have to ask where you hear much if that in the classic bands of Prog during their apex years.

The overt aspects of Rock-in-the-narrow-sense (which - please - is not analogous with "simple" - it's a specific melodic/harmonic/structural style) in the bands above is minor, no matter which songs you pick. Even something as rockin' as I've Seen All Good People modulates through several keys in a way most Rock n Roll doesn't, yet it is still an absolute anomaly in the Yes songbook pre-1980.

Or a track like Great Deceiver, which builds on a Blues base, still has many aspects to offset that, and again, is a bit of a standout in the KC ouevre.

^Except Wyclef makes extremely pandering and chart-oriented music. Fugees were one of the bands that killed innovation in mainstream Hip-hop by making it all about crappy covers andusing old hit samples without adding anything to it but a bad Rap. Plus Wyclef can't Rap for sh*t - he's got as much flow as my Grandma, dead and buried.

That The Fugees (and Lauryn Hill) were briefly the darlings of Rock journalists who'd never heard much actual Rap and could use it as an easy way to seem open-minded doesn't help.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Prog Rock is not a combination of two genres, as "Prog" isn't a genre.

Are you actually saying that "progressive Rock" isn't a genre? That's a minefield you'll have to dance through on your own, thank you.

But you're right, it's not a hybrid. But I have to wonder how far you need to go "not to lose the Rock". Is there anything on seminal Progressive Rock albums like Foxtrot, Tales, Red or H to He that really sounds in any way like Rock music as defined by Rolling Stones? Is there even a three-second snippet that could be mistaken for a band like that? I'd say the answer is no.