Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Why was Syd Barrett a Genius???!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhy was Syd Barrett a Genius???!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
Message
aprusso View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: June 16 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 312
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 03:18
well, he invented psychedelic rock, he invented a new lifestyle for British people, he laid down the musical ideas for 30 years of Pink Floyd music, he is the most imitated songwriter by hundreds of indie bands as of 2006
who would be a genius then? the singer of opeth?
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 03:39
He was an icon, and an innovator. His contribution to music at that time, and beyond was considerable, but he was not a genius IMO.

I'm not sure what criteria other people define the term 'genius' by, but for me it implies a 'talent' way above and beyond what is expected, or considered the 'benchmark' in a particular field. What Syd achieved had not been done before, but it wasn't something that would have been un-obtainable to many other musicians and writers at the time.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
CrazyDiamond View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: June 20 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 466
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 05:34

If you can start something huge as pink Floyd were, are and would be, then call me, 'cos you're a genius.

 
If you manage to produce the same glory of Pink Floyd through the years, then feel happy, 'cos you are a genius.
 
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 05:52
^ Now dont get me wrong, I'm a fan of Floyd, but times change. Floyd happened at a time when there was a huge gap in the market for something so experimental and original. They appeared at a stage in the evolution of pop music that was exciting and allowed for that sort of innovation. They had the ideas, and the guts to do it, and thats fantastic, but it's not genius. It's good luck.

A phenomenon like Floyd could not happen these days. The industry doesn't want it, and lets face it, whetever can be done with a electric guitar and a keyboard in rock music HAS now been done. All rock music now is, at least to some extent, re-hashing of an established formula. A Syd Barret character nowadys would be dismissed as 'pretentious'
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 06:32
Originally posted by cowbell1 cowbell1 wrote:

He did do "Wish you were here"
No, he didn't.
Back to Top
edible_buddha View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 195
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 06:51
"Its awfully considerate of you to think of me here/
And Im most obliged for you for making it clear/
That Im not here..."
 
Syd knew where he was going with his experiments and appeared to understand that he may not return (for all I know, he didnt).  Now his body has followed in the footsteps his mind took so long ago with LSD as his trail marker. 
 
The thing I admire about his work was that he gave us a few glimpses of his journey while he was still walking it (of his free will).  Not that it was overly musical by any streatch, but he allowed us the understanding of the emotions that it took to explore with him.  Few musicians were so 'personable' to have done that (dont know if that was the right word), and for that I have great respect for him.
 
However, I would have to say 'no' to genius status.
 
I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long.
Back to Top
edible_buddha View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 195
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 06:53
Originally posted by sweprogfan sweprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by cowbell1 cowbell1 wrote:

He did do "Wish you were here"
No, he didn't.
From what i understand, he was the inspiration of "Shine on you crazy diamond", and probably was the major influence of WYWH.  Apparently, he even made a surprise visit to the studio while Floyd were recording the album.  But im sure he didnt play.
 
I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long.
Back to Top
Bern View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Québec
Status: Offline
Points: 11746
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 07:04
Originally posted by Tony Fisher Tony Fisher wrote:

Originally posted by toolis toolis wrote:


some personal points on the subject:

1.Syd was not a genius..
2.it doesn't matter what age he died at, tottaly irrelevant...
3.there are greater music talents out there, that's for sure...
4.no one, i mean NO ONE can ever guess how Floyd would be if he didn't leave the band...my humble opinion is that he would drag the rest down with him and Roger wouldn't have the space to conceive the brilliant music of WYWH, DSOTM, the Wall and Animals.. lets face it, the guy was a different kind of song writer...
5.Syd was a bohemian, drug addict, mediocre player. This doesn't add up to a genius...
6.by the time Floyd released PATGOD, Britain's psychedelic rock scene was already very active.. he was not as influential as you think...
7.boy, if i were stoned all the time too, hell, i could put a few words together and impress you...


Well said! I agree with every word.


Exactly my thoughts too.

RIP in bossa nova heaven.
Back to Top
jonirob View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 27 2005
Location: waddam thorp
Status: Offline
Points: 169
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 07:35
I had the great fortune to see Syd play live with The Floyd when I was a teenager at The Empire Ballroom in Blackpool in 1967. His stage presence and playing were electrifying and that concert still sticks in my mind as one of the most memorable I have ever seen. I have seen The Floyd on 3 further occasions, but they were never quite the same. Yes, to me he was a Genius!

Red Prog
Back to Top
Rocktopus View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 07:42
Originally posted by Bern Bern wrote:

Originally posted by Tony Fisher Tony Fisher wrote:

Originally posted by toolis toolis wrote:


some personal points on the subject:

1.Syd was not a genius..Pioneers are often looked upon as geniuses. Piper... defined the sound of psychedelia in '67!
2.it doesn't matter what age he died at, tottaly irrelevant...Fine, he was sixty when he died anyway.
3.there are greater music talents out there, that's for sure...So?
4.no one, i mean NO ONE can ever guess how Floyd would be if he didn't leave the band...my humble opinion is that he would drag the rest down with him and Roger wouldn't have the space to conceive the brilliant music of WYWH, DSOTM, the Wall and Animals.. lets face it, the guy was a different kind of song writer...Thats beside the point. He got sick, and he was different.   
5.Syd was a bohemian, drug addict, mediocre player. This doesn't add up to a genius... It sure doesn't prove he wasn't either, and is an artist being a bohemian problem for you? I think he wrote incredible, unique songs like no one had done before.  
6.by the time Floyd released PATGOD, Britain's psychedelic rock scene was already very active.. he was not as influential as you think...Name one album pre- Piper... sounding close to this experimental and psychedelic (certainly not Revolver). Early Floyd was a big influence on Krautrock, Canterbury and the psychedelic elements of prog in general.
7.boy, if i were stoned all the time too, hell, i could put a few words together and impress you...
A lot of all our music idols of that era took drugs.

Well said! I agree with every word.


Exactly my thoughts too.


The members of the Pink Floyd you all love so much doesn't seem to have any problem acknowledging that we lost a genious to mental illness. Why do you have this unsympathetic need to dissmiss everything he made? His death is sad news for many of us.  




Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Back to Top
NutterAlert View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 07 2005
Location: In transition
Status: Offline
Points: 2807
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 08:39
Interesting to see how UK broadsheet newspapers have extensive coverage of his demise. Both Telegraph and Independent have half page obituaries. The Guardian has 4 pages in its G2 section dedicated to Barrett, mostly written by Nick Kent.
 
He died apparently of cancer.
Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
Back to Top
Royalist View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 27 2006
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 54
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 09:08
Originally posted by wrote:

Being a genius or not, is not a matter of opinion.

At maths.
Back to Top
leirbagaze View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: February 17 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 10:41
YES, 
 
SYD BARRETT WAS A GENIUS.
 
WELL, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO A DICTIONARY
 
A genius is a person with distinguished mental abilities. This can manifest either as a foremost intellect, or as an outstanding creative talent.
 
Creativity (or creativeness) is a mental process involving the generation of new ideas or concepts, or new associations between existing ideas or concepts.
 
 
Back to Top
The Lost Chord View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 23 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1907
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 10:56
I dont understand why some people here are saying it is an insult, and we are making fun of syd right after he died?  Thats complete BULL.
 
We are probably respecting him even more when it comes down to it.  I have full respect for what he did, but I wont make up something that isnt true for me.
 
And I started this thread because it didnt quite make sense, and I am glad people agree.
 
Syd Barrett is dead, he died on the 7th, ofcourse this is sad news, but it doesnt mean you cant have an intellectual conversation about whether or not the man was a genius!
 
Stop carrying on about how this is insulting to his death, because saying THAT is INSULTING!
 
I do not believe he was a genius, and I think it is ridiculous how many people do because I feel it is only at his DEATH that most believe this.  The same will come for many when their day comes...
 
No time is the right time to start this discussion in some of your eyes because you, for some reason, see it as an insult and a making fun.
 
Why can't you let everyone in the world pay their own respect to Syd?  Perhaps someone out there hated the guy for a damn good reason, so be it.
 
I say RIP to a man who many have described very well here, and that is all...
Back to Top
The Wizard View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:02
Originally posted by jonirob jonirob wrote:

I had the great fortune to see Syd play live with The Floyd when I was a teenager at The Empire Ballroom in Blackpool in 1967. His stage presence and playing were electrifying and that concert still sticks in my mind as one of the most memorable I have ever seen. I have seen The Floyd on 3 further occasions, but they were never quite the same. Yes, to me he was a Genius!
 
I would seriously kill a squirrel for that experience!
 
And yes, in my eyes, Syd was a genius. But genius is in the eyes of the beholder my friends.
 
Why do I think he's a genius-his music carries a certain resonance that I hear that speaks to my brain in a certain way-that no one else does.
Back to Top
MajesterX View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 513
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:32
@ The Lost Chord- You do realize that the whole reason this thread was started was from hearing people saying he was great and a genius in his death thread. Don't you realize that when someone dies people are MUCH more likely to say something kinder (perhaps overly nice) than they would if the person was still alive? It's just to be REVERENT to the fact that the person is dead.

Also I think the thread title has alot to do with people thinking you're insulting him, with the many question marks and even an exclamation point, like you are offended that people are calling him a genius. It would have been much better to have something like "Was Syd Barret a Genius?" rather than "Why was Syd Barret a Genius???!"
Back to Top
The Lost Chord View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 23 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1907
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:35
hahah alright you got me, i dont mean to be offending anyone here, syd or progarchives folks, i guess it just happens sometimes...sorry
Back to Top
MajesterX View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 513
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:47
Originally posted by The Lost Chord The Lost Chord wrote:

hahah alright you got me, i dont mean to be offending anyone here, syd or progarchives folks, i guess it just happens sometimes...sorry


Don't worry about it. Thumbs Up
Back to Top
dralan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 29 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 339
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 12:00
 I think Syd was a genius. In the early days he WAS the Floyd. He was truly an innovater in space rock and progressive music and there would be no Pink Floyd without him. All their later successes were a continuation of his original vision. I think one of his main achievements was to take the psycedelic experience and translate that into music. Then he could turn around and write seemingly simple childrens songs with very deep and clever lyrics.

Edited by dralan - July 12 2006 at 12:03
Back to Top
maani View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Founding Moderator

Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 12:10
According to Merriam-Webster, a "genius" is:
 
1 a plural genii : an attendant spirit of a person or place b plural usually genii : a person who influences another for good or bad
2 : a strong leaning or inclination : PENCHANT
3 a : a peculiar, distinctive, or identifying character or spirit b : the associations and traditions of a place c : a personification or embodiment especially of a quality or condition
4 plural usually genii : SPIRIT, JINNI
5 plural usually geniuses a : a single strongly marked capacity or aptitude <had a genius for getting along with boys -- Mary Ross> b : extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity c : a person endowed with transcendent mental superiority; especially : a person with a very high IQ
As for "mental illness," the old adage is quite true: "there is a fine line between genius and madness" (or "genius and insanity").
 
Anyway, genius or not, here is The New York Times' obituary, for what it's worth.  Perhaps it will stimulate new paths of discussion:
 
Syd Barrett, a Founder of Pink Floyd, Dies at 60

Syd Barrett, the erratically brilliant songwriter and singer who created the psychedelic rock of Pink Floyd only to leave the band in 1968 with mental problems, died on July 7 at his home in Cambridgeshire, England. He was 60.

His death was confirmed by a spokesman for his former band, Doug Wright of LD Communications, who did not give a cause. Mr. Barrett had long suffered from diabetes.

A statement from Mr. Wright said: “The band are very naturally upset and sad to hear of Syd Barrett’s death. Syd was the guiding light of the early band lineup and leaves a legacy which continues to inspire.”

With Pink Floyd, and on two haunting solo albums, Mr. Barrett became a touchstone for experimental pop musicians. He was also renowned both as an LSD casualty and as a symbol of how close creativity can be to madness.

Mr. Barrett wrote most of the songs on Pink Floyd’s debut album, “The Piper at the Gates of Dawn.” In Mr. Barrett’s songs like “Astronomy Domine,” whimsy and wordplay merged with a playful sense of structure and sound. “Let’s try it another way/You’ll lose your mind and play,” he wrote in “See Emily Play.”

He also helped to conceive the band’s performances as spectacles. “We have only just started to scrape the surface of effects and ideas of lights and music combined,” Mr. Barrett told the trade newspaper Melody Maker in 1967.

But under the pressures of rock stardom and after frequent use of LSD, Mr. Barrett had a breakdown in the late 1960’s and spent most of his life as a recluse. Pink Floyd, with its bassist, Roger Waters, taking over as songwriter, went on to become a multimillion-selling arena-rock band in the 1970’s. Pink Floyd sang about Mr. Barrett in one of its hits, “Shine On You Crazy Diamond.”

Roger Keith Barrett, nicknamed Syd as a teenager, was born in Cambridge, England, on Jan. 6, 1946. He played the piano as a child and then took up the guitar, joining his first band at 16.

Pink Floyd began with boyhood friendships. Mr. Barrett attended the same elementary school as Mr. Waters. David Gilmour, who eventually replaced him as Pink Floyd’s guitarist, was another teenage friend.

In 1965, while Mr. Barrett studied painting and fine art at Camberwell art school in South London, Mr. Waters, the drummer Nick Mason and the keyboardist Rick Wright were studying architecture at Regent Street Polytechnic. They recruited Mr. Barrett to join their blues band. Mr. Barrett combined the first names of two bluesmen, Pink Anderson and Floyd Council, to name the group Pink Floyd.

Blues-rock soon receded in Pink Floyd’s music, giving way to songs that built on the Beatles’ pop innovations and the expanded perceptions of the 1960’s. The music followed Mr. Barrett’s lyrics through meter changes, improbable interludes and the otherworldly sound effects the band was generating onstage at London clubs like UFO, a bastion of psychedelia. Mr. Barrett used an echo machine and slid a Zippo lighter along his guitar strings to create one of Pink Floyd’s sonic signatures.

In early 1967, Pink Floyd signed to EMI Records. Its first two singles — “Arnold Layne,” a fond song about a transvestite, and “See Emily Play” — reached the British Top 20. Pink Floyd made its debut album at Abbey Road Studios, as the Beatles worked on “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” next door. “The Piper at the Gates of Dawn” was a definitive psychedelic album. Its songs mixed childlike wonder with portents of disaster, and its music veered off on exuberant tangents before returning to pop choruses.

Onstage, the music was more free-form and anarchic. Band members have said Mr. Barrett was unstable even before he began extensive drug use, and he developed a reputation for odd behavior. For one show, he tried to slick down his hair with a combination of Brylcreem and crushed Mandrax tranquilizer pills, which were melted by stage lights and started to ooze down his face as he played. Playing the Fillmore West on Pink Floyd’s 1967 American tour, Mr. Barrett stood staring into space and detuning the strings on his guitar. The band cut short its American tour.

During 1967, Mr. Barrett was taking LSD every day, and that often left him incapable of performing. Mr. Gilmour joined Pink Floyd late in 1967, and by the spring of 1968, Mr. Barrett was out of the band. He wrote the song that closes “A Saucerful of Secrets,” Pink Floyd’s second album: “Jugband Blues,” which includes a Salvation Army band playing on one section. “It’s awfully considerate of you to think of me here,” he sang, “and I’m most obliged to you for making it clear/that I’m not here.”

Without Mr. Barrett, Pink Floyd’s music changed. Whimsy gave way to majestic anthems on best-selling albums like “Dark Side of the Moon,” a concept album about insanity.

Mr. Barrett was treated in psychiatric hospitals and quietly began recording songs and fragments of songs. Some were solo recordings with an acoustic guitar that other musicians were brought in to accompany; others were recorded with fellow musicians in the studio, or with Mr. Barrett working over finished backup tracks. The irregular structures of Mr. Barrett’s songs frustrated studio musicians and various producers, but Mr. Waters and Mr. Gilmour eventually took over production and completed “The Madcap Laughs,” released in January 1970.

Mr. Gilmour and Mr. Barrett returned to the studio to make “Barrett,” released in November 1970. On both albums, Mr. Barrett sounds fragile but oddly serene, following his rhymes whether they lead to nonsense or revelation.

Mr. Barrett appeared on BBC Radio and played one brief show at the London Olympia in 1970 (accompanied by Mr. Gilmour), walking offstage after four songs. In 1972, he made a last attempt to lead a band, Stars, which played a half-dozen shows in England before disbanding. Recording sessions in 1974 were unproductive.

Since then, Mr. Barrett lived quietly, spending some of his time painting. He showed up at unlikely moments: he appeared unannounced, for instance, at a 1975 Pink Floyd session as the band recorded “Shine On, You Crazy Diamond.” A British magazine reported that he was institutionalized for two years in the early 1980’s. Outtakes from his solo albums were released in 1988 as “Opel,” and a boxed set collecting all three solo albums, “Crazy Diamond,” was released in 1993. He learned he had Type II diabetes in 1998.

Mr. Barrett’s survivors include a brother, Alan, and a sister, Rosemary.

For someone with such a brief career, Mr. Barrett has never been forgotten. Indie-rockers have long tried to emulate his twisted craftsmanship, paying tribute in songs like Television Personalities’ “I Know Where Syd Barrett Lives.” Sir Tom Stoppard’s new play, “Rock ’n’ Roll,” invokes him as a lost free spirit.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.164 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.