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Topic ClosedHigh Tide - Prog Rock or Prog Metal?

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Poll Question: High Tide - Prog Rock or Prog Metal?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
23 [71.88%]
9 [28.13%]
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: High Tide - Prog Rock or Prog Metal?
    Posted: July 21 2006 at 03:06
Simple question, simple answers.Smile

I voted "Prog Rock" ... High Tide are not at all related to metal IMHO, not even as a "Proto" band.

Edit: I added the "Proto" - genres to the options.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - July 21 2006 at 06:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 03:39
I think they are metal in the same way as I think Black Sabbath is. But I'll admit I would never say: You should listen to High Tide, its Prog-Metal. Then again, I would never say that about anything. Not even Opeth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 03:47
None, not Prog Rock, not Proto Prog, maybe Proto Metal.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 06:50
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

None, not Prog Rock, not Proto Prog, maybe Proto Metal.
 
Iván


Maybe Proto Metal (music similar to Black Sabbath), maybe rather first prog metal band? Who knows?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 06:56
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

None, not Prog Rock, not Proto Prog, maybe Proto Metal.
 
Iván


I deliberately added no "Other/None" choice ... I want to force people to choose a side. Either you think High Tide are more Rock, or more Metal.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 07:55
I voted rock. There's no doubting they're prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 09:10
Prog Rock / Proto-Prog-Rock
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 09:57
let me put it like this: High Tide are prog metal as it should be. unfortunately that has not much to do do with prog metal as it is

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 10:00
^ ok, so you're saying that High Tide are what Prog Metal SHOULD be like - but High Tide are not Prog Metal as it is commonly defined?

That would make much sense to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 10:22
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ ok, so you're saying that High Tide are what Prog Metal SHOULD be like - but High Tide are not Prog Metal as it is commonly defined?

That would make much sense to me.

yes, exactly

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2006 at 15:37
I don't really think HT are Prog-Metal, so I voted for the first option. They're definitely prog (sorry, Ivan), heavily influenced by psychedelia, and with a very hard, distorted guitar sound - but metal? Not really, especially their second, self-titled album, which is more sophisticated than the first. Great albums though, both of them - "Death Warmed Up" is one of my favourite instrumentals of all times.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2006 at 17:23

Actually it is not that simple. I voted for prog-rock (nothing "proto" in there - truly progressive band). But I would agree with BaldJean - this is what prog-metal should be. But as per current sub-genres status and definitions it is definitely prog-rock.

Their guitar/vilolin counterparts are amazing, by the way.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2006 at 18:23
This may sound very strange to you, but when I think of High Tide and Prog Metal I am reminded of a triassic family of reptiles named phytosaurs and of crocodiles. The phytosaurs were semik-aquatic creatures, liike the crocodiles, and looked a lot like them; a typical example of convergent evolution. The problem of not getting water into the lungs when diving was solved in a completely different and much more elegant way by the Phytosaurs: The oesophagus and the trachea were completely seperated from each other in their anatomy. Crocodiles have their nostrils at the tip of their snouts; when underwater they just close them. The phytosaurs lived in the triassic period, the crocodiles appeared in the jurassic period, when the Phytosaurs already were extinct. The phytosaurs varied in length as much as the crocodiles; the biggest were almost as big as the biggest crocodile ever found (12m is the longest known one; a few years ago the skeleton of a 15m crocodile was discovered, but maybe a similar discovery of a very large phytosaurus will occur some day in the future).
Well, High Tide are like the phytosaurs. Musically more advanced than the crocodiles of Prog Metal of today, just like the breathing system of the phytosaurs was more advanced than that of the crocodiles, and yet extinct today.
Ok, this may be a strange and somewhat stretched comparison, but is is what I have to think of when being reminded of High Tide. Call me nuts!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2006 at 18:33
BaldFriede, no one would dare to call you nuts!  Phytosaur :
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2006 at 19:18
Bravo, Friede! Very interesting zoological parallel.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2006 at 22:20
The name "Phytosaur", by the way, literally means "plant reptile" and stems from the false believe of the palaentologists that named it that it was a plant eating animal. I don't know what they have been smoking, but does an animal that looks like this strike you as "plant eating"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2006 at 01:19
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

This may sound very strange to you, but when I think of High Tide and Prog Metal I am reminded of a triassic family of reptiles named phytosaurs and of crocodiles. The phytosaurs were semik-aquatic creatures, liike the crocodiles, and looked a lot like them; a typical example of convergent evolution. The problem of not getting water into the lungs when diving was solved in a completely different and much more elegant way by the Phytosaurs: The oesophagus and the trachea were completely seperated from each other in their anatomy. Crocodiles have their nostrils at the tip of their snouts; when underwater they just close them. The phytosaurs lived in the triassic period, the crocodiles appeared in the jurassic period, when the Phytosaurs already were extinct. The phytosaurs varied in length as much as the crocodiles; the biggest were almost as big as the biggest crocodile ever found (12m is the longest known one; a few years ago the skeleton of a 15m crocodile was discovered, but maybe a similar discovery of a very large phytosaurus will occur some day in the future).
Well, High Tide are like the phytosaurs. Musically more advanced than the crocodiles of Prog Metal of today, just like the breathing system of the phytosaurs was more advanced than that of the crocodiles, and yet extinct today.
Ok, this may be a strange and somewhat stretched comparison, but is is what I have to think of when being reminded of High Tide. Call me nuts!


I certainly don't call you nuts, but I strongly disagree with that bit about High Tide being musically "More advanced" than Prog Metal. Of course there are many PM bands which are not very advanced - maybe even simplistic. But it's a big genre with hundreds of bands, and some of them are just as musically challenging as the "true" prog rock bands.

BTW: You seem to have a strange fixation on counterpoint and polyphony ... I don't have a problem with that, but the lack of those two elements in a piece of music doesn't mean that the musicians aren't capable of it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2006 at 03:14
You carry my anology too far, Mike; I did not mean to say that. Perhaps I should have mentioned that, just as the breathing system of the phytosaurs was more advanced than that of the crocodiles, the legs of the crocodiiles were more advanced than the legs of the phytosaurs, and most probably their circuit too (crocodiles have the most advanced circuit of all reptiles today), though we can't know the latter one for sure, since soft tissue is very rarely conserved over the ages, and we usually only find the bones.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2006 at 06:20
Wait, so why should Prog-Metal be like High Tide? I get it not.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2006 at 07:33
I can only speak on my own behalf. When I try to listen to some of the big prog metal names, or if I stream some of the lesser known ones here, a lot of the times I wish more of them took inspiration for making hard, complex metal elsewhere.

Often the vocalist ruins the whole thing for me with either the traditional metal falsetto voice (Dream Theater, Psychotic Waltz...). Then its the general sound, and the kitschy quasi classical keyboards fanfares. Quite often the lyrics and concepts are so pompous its embarrassing. Infact everything we tend to call cheesy is very present in this genre.

I wish that the combined inspiration taken from it seems Iron Maiden, Queensryche, Metallica, Rush, (and ELP, Yes of the classic bands) etc... was less dominant.

I have no problem with extreme aggression, speed, growling, all things considered typical for metal.

But I do wish more bands developed an alternative path for how prog-metal sounds, and it would be great if more bands took inspiration from forexample High Tide.

I like and even love some of the new, harder prog. But I understand (my own, and) other people's problems/frustration with parts of the established progmetal sound. And the troubles thinking they're sound or attitude is very 'prog' or 'progressive'.

And again, I think High Tide can be considered progmetal, even if the new bands doesn't sound like them. Not many progressive electronic bands or artists would namecheck (or sound like) Franco Battiato's early seventies recordings as a big influence either, but that's still the most correct genre for his albums from that time.



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