High Tide - Prog Rock or Prog Metal?

eugene wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: It may seem pathietic to you ... but only if you expect it to be something which it never claimed to be.   With all due respect, I have stopped expecting anything from this sub-genre for quite a while now. But same does not prevent me from listening to some of new recommended metal acts. This is probably because there is some hidden hope deep inside that I shall suddenly find something interesting. The freshest example - yesterday I was given "For the love of art.... " by Beyond Twilight, the album highly spoken about by all prog-metal-heads I know. After having listened to it, I was thinking how to better describe this album - and "pathetic" is the right word for it, I think. From the other hand I have discovered one very interesting band recently - "Secret Chiefs 3" and I liked their album called "Book of Horizons", then I learned that the band is under "Prog-metal" label here in PA. But this means incorrect positionning of the band IMO rather than that I love metal again.      Oh, and I did not get this Led Zeppelin/death metal associations given by Ivan, thus can't reply/comment it.

I also think that Secret Chiefs 3 are not a prog metal band ... but you have to admit that Book of Horizons has some pretty heavy Death Metal like parts.

BTW: Why didn't you read the Beyond Twilight reviews? They describe the album pretty accurately, and it should be obvious that their latest album  contains some of the trademarks which often annoy "non metalheads". 

MikeEnRegalia wrote: It may seem pathietic to you ... but only if you expect it to be something which it never claimed to be.

BaldFriede wrote: ivansfr0st wrote: Wait, so why should Prog-Metal be like High Tide? I get it not.    -- Ivan Because High Tide had a certain quality I miss within most of Prog Metal (with the odd exception). It is hard to put into words what it is; the best I can come up with is a certain "dirtyness" of High Tide, which I miss in most prog metal acts. They are heavy, yes, but somehow squeaky clean. There is a German expression, "die Sau rauslassen", "letting the sow out". High Tide could do that, most of prog metal can't, in my opinion, however hard they may be. It is strangely lifeless and sterile. As I said, there are exceptions, but not many.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ you're always so dead serious ... give us an emoticon next time!

That's how you interpret me. I don't like using these guys at all . Have to start writing ha-ha-ha all the time, I guess.

^ you're always so dead serious ... give us an emoticon next time!

Now you're being pathetic. There are enough PM albums which are progressive beyond any discussion. We can argue about whether *on average* PM is less progressive than 70s Prog Rock though. But then again most "metalheads" wouldn't deny that.

It may seem pathietic to you ... but only if you expect it to be something which it never claimed to be.

I can only speak on my own behalf. When I try to listen to some of the big prog metal names, or if I stream some of the lesser known ones here, a lot of the times I wish more of them took inspiration for making hard, complex metal elsewhere.

Often the vocalist ruins the whole thing for me with either the traditional metal falsetto voice (Dream Theater, Psychotic Waltz...). Then its the general sound, and the kitschy quasi classical keyboards fanfares. Quite often the lyrics and concepts are so pompous its embarrassing. Infact everything we tend to call cheesy is very present in this genre.

I wish that the combined inspiration taken from it seems Iron Maiden, Queensryche, Metallica, Rush, (and ELP, Yes of the classic bands) etc... was less dominant.

I have no problem with extreme aggression, speed, growling, all things considered typical for metal.

But I do wish more bands developed an alternative path for how prog-metal sounds, and it would be great if more bands took inspiration from forexample High Tide.

I like and even love some of the new, harder prog. But I understand (my own, and) other people's problems/frustration with parts of the established progmetal sound. And the troubles thinking they're sound or attitude is very 'prog' or 'progressive'.

And again, I think High Tide can be considered progmetal, even if the new bands doesn't sound like them. Not many progressive electronic bands or artists would namecheck (or sound like) Franco Battiato's early seventies recordings as a big influence either, but that's still the most correct genre for his albums from that time.

You carry my anology too far, Mike; I did not mean to say that. Perhaps I should have mentioned that, just as the breathing system of the phytosaurs was more advanced than that of the crocodiles, the legs of the crocodiiles were more advanced than the legs of the phytosaurs, and most probably their circuit too (crocodiles have the most advanced circuit of all reptiles today), though we can't know the latter one for sure, since soft tissue is very rarely conserved over the ages, and we usually only find the bones.

The name "Phytosaur", by the way, literally means "plant reptile" and stems from the false believe of the palaentologists that named it that it was a plant eating animal. I don't know what they have been smoking, but does an animal that looks like this strike you as "plant eating"?