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coffeeintheface View Drop Down
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Points: 397 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: "War Pigs" and "Fairies Wear Boots".....p
    Posted: July 23 2006 at 02:47
I feel like I'm the only person who's brought this up, but the songs "War Pigs" and "Fairies Wear Boots" off of Black Sabbath's "Paranoid" seem very progressive to me. "War Pigs" has a couple recurring themes, no real verse/chorus, a powerful extended outro, and tempo changes galore.

"Fairies Wear Boots" has tons of proggy jamming before it shoots forward into the main verse. There's this one part after the first verse when Iommi plays this palm-muted chord over and over for like 10 seconds before slowing back down back to the main theme from the beginning. I always found that very proggy.

Any thoughts on this, anyone?
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Ty1020 View Drop Down
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Points: 721 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 02:49
Never listened to it myself but I've heard a lot of people talk about Black Sabbath's early work being prog-related at the very least. So you're not alone, although I'm not really in a position to agree or disagree with you.
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 02:51
Originally posted by coffeeintheface coffeeintheface wrote:

I feel like I'm the only person who's brought this up, but the songs "War Pigs" and "Fairies Wear Boots" off of Black Sabbath's "Paranoid" seem very progressive to me. "War Pigs" has a couple recurring themes, no real verse/chorus, a powerful extended outro, and tempo changes galore.

"Fairies Wear Boots" has tons of proggy jamming before it shoots forward into the main verse. There's this one part after the first verse when Iommi plays this palm-muted chord over and over for like 10 seconds before slowing back down back to the main theme from the beginning. I always found that very proggy.

Any thoughts on this, anyone?


thoughts.. .yeah...

great songs! .. progressive?  oh hell yeah... prog? nope. ' Prog/progressive rock' was a movement to bring artistic sensiblity to rock.. the details like tempo changes,  structure,  and all that were results of that.  Not characteristics of what is prog and what is not.  My thoughts at least hahah. 
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 03:02
I've listened to those songs many times, and I find nothing really proggy in them. The jamming is more bluesy to me. I'd say Paranoid is the least progressive of Black Sabbath's classic 70's albums. Wink
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Points: 537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 03:43
Those two tracks (and that whole album), not really.

All of the albums that followed them in the 70's? Slightly.
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Points: 20521 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 04:49
Originally posted by coffeeintheface coffeeintheface wrote:

"War Pigs" has a couple recurring themes, no real verse/chorus, a powerful extended outro, and tempo changes galore.

Any thoughts on this, anyone?


Which tempo changes?Confused
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tortellino View Drop Down
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Points: 178 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 05:12
To hear Black Sabbath at their most progressive you should check out "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath"... In that record plays an uncredited (due to publicing rights) mr. Rick Wakeman!!! My personal favourite song is Spiral Architect, but all are truly great!
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M. B. Zapelini View Drop Down
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Points: 773 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 07:15
Oh well... What's the next step? Will we discuss if "I'm Your Captain" (Grand Funk Railroad) is a prog song or not? I'm not a purist, but tempo changes does not make a prog song. There's lots of elements, all of which were discussed here at this Forum before. Correct me if I'm wrong, but although there's not a prog song "recipe", we must have some additional criteria to classify a song as prog, not only the aforementioned tempo changes... IMO, Philéas got it right: Sabbath's jamming is more bluesy than prog. As a conclusion, I'd like to say that I'm a big fan of Black Sabbath (have their entire catalogue plus some bootlegs), and they're not prog - which does not make any difference - they're a great band by all standards.
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Points: 4309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 13:17
Both "War Pigs" and "Faires Wear Boots" are Hard Rock songs with Prog elements ... they're not too difficult to play but definitely I can consider them Progressive. Both songs are not 'standard' and do not have a real chorus, and are excellent !! Thumbs Up
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Points: 7341 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 13:25

Really jam-band elements rather than prog elements. Not every good band is prog (I am a Sabbath fan by the way).

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Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2006 at 13:28
^^
Your name reminded me of the Sabbath song "The Wizard" that has some prog elements surely?
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Points: 397 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 00:40
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by coffeeintheface coffeeintheface wrote:

"War Pigs" has a couple recurring themes, no real verse/chorus, a powerful extended outro, and tempo changes galore.

Any thoughts on this, anyone?


Which tempo changes?Confused


slow dirgy intro, then goes into that quick riff with the jazzy hi-hat play. Then near the end when it slows down for that instrumental outro. They're subtle but they're there.
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coffeeintheface View Drop Down
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Points: 397 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 00:42
Originally posted by Barla Barla wrote:

Both "War Pigs" and "Faires Wear Boots" are Hard Rock songs with Prog elements ... they're not too difficult to play but definitely I can consider them Progressive. Both songs are not 'standard' and do not have a real chorus, and are excellent !! Thumbs Up


That's exactly what I was getting at. I never meant to say I thought they were a prog band by any stretch, but I found those two songs progressive.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20521 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 02:30
^ if any metal song that doesn't stick to the verse-verse-chorus-etc patterns was prog, then we'd have much more prog metal bands in the archives.Wink
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coffeeintheface View Drop Down
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Points: 397 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 03:19
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ if any metal song that doesn't stick to the verse-verse-chorus-etc patterns was prog, then we'd have much more prog metal bands in the archives.Wink


good point, but I never said they were progressive. Just these songs. Hey, maybe someone will suggest them to be in here because of Rick Wakeman's guest spot though! Big smile
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Abstrakt View Drop Down
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Points: 18292 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 03:24
They Are Progressive, but they don't fit to any genre on Progarchives. Or Maybe???
Black Sabbath - Jazz Rock/Fusion
Paranoid - Prog related
Master Of Reality - Prog Metal
Vol 4 - Art Rock
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath - Symphonic Prog
Sabotage - Prog Metal/Symphonic
Technical Ecstasy - Canterbury?
Never Say Die - Art Rock
 
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Points: 9226 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 05:00
great songs, both of them, but not prog I think
 
Fairies.. is one of my all time favourites...
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Points: 71 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 05:09
I think Vol.4 is the most progressive album of all Black Sabbath's works.
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Points: 4252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 12:44
i would hardly describe early Sabbath as Prog, but it laid down a blueprint for heavy metal.
 
interesting fact......the song "Fairies Wear Boots" was inspired by a late-night encounter in Birmingham's Bull Ring between Black Sabbath and a group of skinheads.Ouch
 
 
 
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Points: 254 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 13:11
Prog moments from Sabbath:
 
Technical Ecstasy
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
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