brutal/death anyone?

Logos wrote: Metal? Two words:

the one death metal cliche i've never understood:

are we supposed to think that the more illegible your logo is, the heavier your band is?

GoldenSpiral wrote: bluetailfly wrote: ivansfr0st wrote: bluetailfly wrote: I don't know, there's just something a little juvinile to be listening to grown men yell and growl about death and satan accompanied by thick chunky guitar riffs. It's such an escape, and it belies serious issues of frustration.   I mean how long can guys dye their hair black and be all "death metal"ly and really believe it, believe that they are creating worthwhile experiences for their listeners?   After a while, it's just embarrasing. I'm sorry. I mean I went through a serious freak rock phase in the seventies (Alice Cooper, et al.), but to see those same bands still doing it without a sense of humor about it, I don't know, it's sort of pathetic.   Death Metal has nothing to do with Alice Cooper, unless you mean on stage presence or anything.   And what you said is a way superficial look on the scene from an outsider. The Death/Black Metal fan will tell me that Prog is about extended wanky mellotron solos and wailing vocals, and I will pay no attention to neither of you.   The genre is much more than a rebel and offers a substantial amount of high quality bands, among which innovative and original ones can be found even today. Moreover, I won't even go in detail about how technical many Death Metal bands are, and how complex this music gets. If you can't stand the death growl, you are only restricting yourself, as there will always be people open-minded enough to appreciate it.    -- Ivan   Well, let me say this about that; I love the electric guitar and the sound it makes in all its incarnations, including chunky, distorted, slabs at a fast tempo.   And I'm sure there are many metal guitarists I don't know about who are past masters at providing this shrapnal-like experience. So I don't need to be educated on that matter.   But, as far as standing the "death growl" my question is, what are you getting out of it besides a sort of vicarious experience as a demon or something? And I don't mean this in a put-down sort of way, I just mean, ultimately what is it about the experience that turns you on? Is it simply the theatre of it? Like a good horror movie? Does it make the listener feel like they are at some sort of pagan, druidic ritural? Does it make you feel like you're in touch with some "reality"? Like you're communing with the dark, sharp-toothed mouth that's really at the center of existence, not God or Jesus or any of that other 'uplifting' B.S. that's shovelled down our throats from day one?   Just curious. a) death metal is not all about satanism/paganism/demons/devils, etc. b) death metal is not all about satanism/paganism/demons/devils, etc.... got it yet? c) the scream/growl is an expression of anguish and extreme emotion (when used properly) d) when used properly, it requires a fair amount of skill e) admittedly, at one level, it is mostly a stylistic thing, but no one is saying you have to 'get it' or you have to enjoy it, but please don't belittle it.

Edited by bluetailfly - August 08 2006 at 11:10

bluetailfly wrote:   I wasn't belittling it, so please don't think I was. I believe paganism is a legitimate religious viewpoint. But let's just take the name "Death Metal." That's a pretty loaded expression. And I believe there is a some sort of "religious" element in it, maybe a sort of total nihilism, or maybe a belief that evil is the ultimate power or something.   I don't think it is purely stylistic and designed for cathartic effect only (I mean listen to Led Zeppelin if you want extreme release of frustrated emotion.)   There's something more here and I think we need to get a handle on it. And the whole "well, if you don't like it, bugger off" response is not getting at it.   I'm asking all death metal heads to let me know what about it really turns them on. Why Death Metal and not just heavy metal?   I'm interested.

OK, well first let me be totally honest.  Not much more than a year or so ago I was of the same opinion as you.  I grew up on heavy metal, but I never much liked screaming (I could handle Pantera and Sepultura but that's about it), and definitely no growling.  It wasn't until I began getting into more atmospheric music such as Opeth and Isis that I began to see the merits of this vocal style.  For me, it acts as a layer of atmosphere to the music. 

Lyrics don't really matter much IMO (usually can't understand them anyway ), but the voice is made into a different kind of instrument than it's commonly used for, and it adds a certain something to the overall feel that just can't possibly be expressed with melodic vocals. 

Now, I like melody as much as the next guy and I dont really like metal where the death growl is constant.  In fact, in the case of the more brutal stuff, the vocals are more of something I accept and sort of ignore... but in the case of atmospheric death metal (and post/sludge for that matter),  the vocals are a crucial part of the overall feel of the song.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it's about feel for me.  It's not my favorite vocal style by any means, but it is definitely crucial in certain contexts. 

Logos wrote: Metal? Two words:

cuncuna wrote: I fyou are asking if I want a brutal death; no, thanks. Now, if you are asking if I want my music to sound like a brutal death, no, thanks. If you are asking if I want music to cause brutal death, no thanks. And if you are asking if I want to buy music wich label or reference name or nickname or feeling is like a brutal death, no thanks. Those fantasies of cruelty, wickedness and brutal death, I'll leave to the Machos.

No wish of death to nobody, don't worry.
Be sure I'm not a macho, I only have a (morbid?) taste for this kind of music called "Brutal/death metal", that comes from my youth when I was a bit of an outsider, and liked what nodoby liked or understood.

Now, the thought of grown men grunting about decomposing bodies, or horrible ways to die, sounds funny to me; I agree with other members here, this kind of music could be a way to express and exteriorate the anguish and anger that modern life brings to us, but still I don't think that, one for all, CANNIBAL CORPSE's singer really wants to split anybody's spine or have a rendez-vous with dead young ladies.

Also, when these bands play for their audience is only to get a living and bring some fun, nobody is harmed, killed or bombed; now, look what happens wiht israel and lebanon, and tell me what's REALLY sick in this world...

tortellino wrote: cuncuna wrote: I fyou are asking if I want a brutal death; no, thanks. Now, if you are asking if I want my music to sound like a brutal death, no, thanks. If you are asking if I want music to cause brutal death, no thanks. And if you are asking if I want to buy music wich label or reference name or nickname or feeling is like a brutal death, no thanks. Those fantasies of cruelty, wickedness and brutal death, I'll leave to the Machos. No wish of death to nobody, don't worry.Be sure I'm not a macho, I only have a (morbid?) taste for this kind of music called "Brutal/death metal", that comes from my youth when I was a bit of an outsider, and liked what nodoby liked or understood.Now, the thought of grown men grunting about decomposing bodies, or horrible ways to die, sounds funny to me; I agree with other members here, this kind of music could be a way to express and exteriorate the anguish and anger that modern life brings to us, but still I don't think that, one for all, CANNIBAL CORPSE's singer really wants to split anybody's spine or have a rendez-vous with dead young ladies.Also, when these bands play for their audience is only to get a living and bring some fun, nobody is harmed, killed or bombed; now, look what happens wiht israel and lebanon, and tell me what's REALLY sick in this world...

Regarding the Macho comment; I'm thinking about some very specific characters as reference. Most of them are homofobics with very poor sensitivity. As I said in another thread, art resources most come with an answer to a very basic question: ¿why doing this?. That is irrelevant to matters of taste, off course; music is a very particular form of art in wich validation comes from popularity and not from conceptual propositions (try to get picked by Dokumenta with a visual arts proposal... tough auddience). As for the world, yes, it is sick, but music has nothing to do with it. I would consider Britney Spears as a form of violence, since she produce sounds that has nothing to do with conceptual exploration, and yet her work is very well rewarded; meanwhile truly brave and hard working poets within the realms of music are very often limitated to work on wonderfull things while they have to work for food. I recently listen an enterview to Fulano's ex members; they talked about the oximoron that is to acomplish a great composition, but with no money to pay the bills...

Added: work under a label is nothing but start with a very specific limitation in mind.
    
    

Edited by cuncuna - August 09 2006 at 15:06