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Mandrakeroot 
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
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 Topic: Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream doubt
Posted: August 12 2006 at 12:36 |
According to me this band are not really Progressive Electronic. Rather I would say... KrautRock.
And for you?
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stonebeard
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 12:41 |
I misunderstood. 
I haven't really heard enough of either.
Edited by stonebeard - August 12 2006 at 13:15
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Progressive??
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 04 2006
Location: Chile
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 13:06 |
difficult question, this one....
but I vote for Progressive Electronic
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Ricochet
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 13:06 |
debut: Tangerine Dream = klaut or experimental weirdness Klaus Schulze (just to go diverse in this subject) = drones (klaut) JMJ = electronic Brian Eno = ugly goo  Ashra = ambient/electronic/new age. Overall = electronic comes tad fade, incipient or not at all, being a later supposition
Edited by Ricochet - August 12 2006 at 13:07
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Abstrakt
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 13:27 |
Early Kraftwerk = Krautrock
Later Kraftwerk = Electronic
Early Tangerine Dream = Krautrock
Later Tangerine Dream = Electronic
So i guess it's a tie
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Hans
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 17:27 |
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I dont't know about Kraftwerk, but Tangerine Dream is most definetively electronic.
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Australian
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:45 |
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Tangerine Dream is Electronic, while Kraftwerk leans more to the krautrock side
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micky
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:52 |
 Abstrakt wrote:
Early Kraftwerk = Krautrock
Later Kraftwerk = Electronic
Early Tangerine Dream = Krautrock
Later Tangerine Dream = Electronic
So i guess it's a tie |
well said, put .them in both
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Markus
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Posted: August 17 2006 at 06:15 |
Tangerine Dream's "Electronic meditation" is krautrock.Next albums-electronic.
Kraftwerk to "Autobahn"-krautrock,later electronic.
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Bilek
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Posted: August 17 2006 at 06:47 |
No answer. both bands go into prog-electronic because that's the best expression which defines " most" of their albums... (and still problematic, because in that case Genesis would have to be removed to art-rock, or prog-related, and even out of the archves!)
as for their early output, as abstrakt rightfully stated, both bands are in Krautrock scene, but Kraftwerk apparently moved to pure electronics somewhat earlier than TD (and despite the fact that it is indeed TD who gave up conventionel instruments first, but they quickly retained them...) for me, TD moves onto Electronic completely only after Exit (and even then, some albums will still retain other styles), with brief works in other subgenres than Kraut before then (e.g. pure space rock with stratosfear, Symphonic with Cyclone and Force Majeure)
the relation of the two bands had been explained in the earlier version of TD's official website as: "for us Kraftwerk represents the exact opposite way of using electronic instruments as TD" (or somehting like that). Indeed. even in their krautrock output, TD represents a more flexible and experimental sound, while Kraftwerk features a "motorik" beat (as futher developed by their spinoff act Neu!)
by the way; most of those who have posted before me, I think you have to go through the entire discography of TD in order to have a clearer view, though I admit I haven't done this myself! (after 1985 it's too cheesy) TD is not clearly represented by a handful of albums. and please, at least give a listen to all albums from Electronic Meditation to Tangram (or Pergamon, included). You will see the broad range of styles employed just within 10 years!
vote? no vote. both genres represent the bands' style... its further evident from the fact that TD was introduced to the site from "Space rock", and Kraftwerk from "Krautrock" when electronic genre wasn't established.
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Bilek
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Posted: August 17 2006 at 06:51 |
Markus wrote:
Tangerine Dream's "Electronic meditation" is krautrock.Next albums-electronic.
Kraftwerk to "Autobahn"-krautrock,later electronic. |
my suggestion to go through the discography especially applies to you, friend! can you tell me what part of, for example, " Cyclone" is electronic?!?!? or, is Pink Floyd's "Animals" also electronic??  and even in "groundbreaking" albums like Phaedra, you can sense the Krautrock influence.
but I have to give you credit for kraftwerk: indeed, Autobahn was a really transition album from Kraut to pure electronics (not to mention that this is the last album they used conventional instruments)
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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philippe
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Posted: August 17 2006 at 07:31 |
I don't understand this ambiguity, Since their signature for Virgin until nowTangerine Dream's materials always refer to different types of electronic machines (Analog sequencer,Modular Moog)...it represents 90% of their discography, consequently they deserve the progressive electronic label, I won't remove them to an other category.
After their two first essays in aleatoric experimentations Kraftwerk definitely introduced electronics in pop music, this band brought the most significant contribution to progressive electronic music. No changes needed
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PROGMAN
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Posted: October 05 2006 at 18:58 |
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Progressive Electronic is relevent for both bands!!
Yes KW and TD have started as Krautrock bands, but both evolved into Electronic.
1969 - 1973 Krautrock for both bands (pratically speaking).
1973 onwards Electronic Prog therefore.
Kraftwerk has produced excellent experimental hard rock/krautrock stuff in 1971 when they were a trio, Florian Schneider/Klaus Dinger/Michael Rother, shame Ralf Hutter freaked out during this period and briefly quit Kraftwerk, if they had been a four piece at that time, I wonder if the outcome would have been better??
Tangerine Dream started as a folk band, yes a folk band until, they developed into a band doing spacey/experimental Krautrock stuff and Electronic there after.
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CYMRU AM BYTH 
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tuxon
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Posted: October 06 2006 at 00:42 |
Overall I think electronics suits them both fine. though Krautrock is the genre they originated from (mostly because they are both German bands of course).
I think space progressive is a relative good place for TD also, but I don't know the later TD albums, and they are too many to try all. But from what I know electronic and space don't really bite each other.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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richardh
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Posted: October 06 2006 at 02:25 |
Krautrock on the basis that they are German?
'progressive electronic'' seems fine to me.
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ProgFan
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Posted: October 06 2006 at 03:40 |
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Progressive Electronic
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Bilek
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Posted: October 06 2006 at 03:54 |
PROGMAN wrote:
1969 - 1973 Krautrock for both bands (pratically speaking).
1973 onwards Electronic Prog therefore.
Tangerine Dream started as a folk band, yes a folk band until, they developed into a band doing spacey/experimental Krautrock stuff and Electronic there after.
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it would be very interesting to hear folk stuff from TD (of course, without Schulze, Schnitzler, Franke et all... and there was actually a period with Steve Joiliffe, who caused much controversy in his later inclusion!). Its'a shame nothing from their early period comes off, I doubt whether anything was even recorded...
for 1973: I wouldn't say both bands went completely electronic in this date. Both Ralf und Florian and Green Desert (recorded 73, though released more than a decade later) albums show strong Krautrock characteristics. Besides, there's even some Krautrock in Autobahn if you listen close enough. Kraftwerk goes pure electronics starting from Radioaktivitat.
As for TD, Phaedra is an absolute turning point for TD, hints of which were actually given in Atem album the year before. Even then, they popped up Krautrock elements every now and then, particularly in concerts; check out Ricochet for instance. I'd call this period of TD ('75 - '80) "electronic based eclectic rock", which is shortened into "electronic rock" in the last CD of their Bootleg Box Set vol. 1... 
(there's also a brief symphonic period in '78-'79, which may also be included within the scope of "eclectic" anyway...)
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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MattiR
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Location: Poland
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Points: 1200
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Posted: October 06 2006 at 08:07 |
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From general point of view --> Progressive Electronic
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Sean Trane
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Posted: October 06 2006 at 12:29 |
I link Kraftwerk's work too closely to Neu! and to a lesser extent Can, which means that they be should krautrock. IMHO
TD is electronic prog
Edited by Sean Trane - October 06 2006 at 12:30
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Spacemac
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Location: Poland
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Posted: November 03 2006 at 17:32 |
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Progressive Electronic
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Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream doubt
