Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The development of prog
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThe development of prog

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Topic: The development of prog
    Posted: March 06 2004 at 07:22

HI!

I'm writing a large paper for school. Of course it's about (the development of) progressive rock, and I thought maybe you could help me a bit

I wonder what bands you consider as being the most influential, the most important, or just the BEST bands of each decade.

So what do you think are the best progbands from the sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties?

Thanks in advance!

Joren

Back to Top
Aerandir View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2004 at 08:34

Hello and a very interesting paper you chose!

i think this linik will help you http://www.encyclopedia.com/searchpool.asp?target=progressiv e+rock you can also search for other prog-genres! everything is included!

Concerning my opinion of which bands were more influential i would say 4 among dozens that exist! Pink Floyd , Jethro Tull , Genesis and (oh yes, i'm gonna say it..) Dream Theater  

 

That which doesn't kill you, postpones the inevitable
Back to Top
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2004 at 08:48

Thanks Aerandir! I will not forget Dream Theater (how could I? )

I tried to make a list for the sixties and seventies already. Please correct/criticise it! (I need it)

MOST IMPORTANT PROGBANDS OF THE SIXTIES:

 

Caravan

Colosseum

Genesis

Jethro Tull

King Crimson

Moody Blues

Nice, The

Pink Floyd

Renaissance?

Soft Machine

Van Der Graaaf Generator

Vanilla Fudge

Yes

 

 

MOST IMPORTANT PROGBANDS OF THE SEVENTIES:

 

New

Amon Düül II?

Ange?

Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso

Barclay James Harvest

Brand X

Camel

Can

Colosseum II?

Eloy

Emerson, Lake And Palmer

Focus

Gentle Giant

Gong?

Hawkwind

Magma

Mahavishnu Orchestra

Manfred Mann’s Earth Band

Oldfield, Mike

Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM)?

Rush

Saga?

Strawbs?

Old (already wel-known in the sxties)

Caravan

Jethro Tull

Genesis

King Crimson

Moody Blues

Pink Floyd

Renaissance?

Soft Machine?

Van Der Graaaf Generator

Yes

 



Edited by Joren
Back to Top
lucas View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2004 at 11:21

A difficult task...

Late sixties and beginnig of the seventies :           ;           ;           ;           ;           ;       I would say it all began with psychedelic music, i. e. essentially Jimi Hendrix and earlier Pink Floyd (all their stuff with Syd Barrett). [Some people say that the Beatles also had a contribution to the prog movement]. Then came bands such as King Crimson and Yes at the end of the sixties. King Crimson, along with Van der Graaf Generator helped define a sub-genre of the progressive music called hard-prog ('hard' refering to the tormented atmosphere of their records, however 'In the court of the crimson King' is symphonical prog). Yes were playing symphonical rock, so called because of the use of a symphonic orchestra. Genesis were already recording at the end of the sixties but their  links to the progressive rock were not yet defined. With the album 'Trespass', things became clear about Genesis. Yes and Genesis remain icons in the symphonical rock music. Other bands followed their steps later : Gentle Giant, Camel among others. At the same time as symphonical rock was developing in Great Britain, many italian bands were performing a similar type of music : Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, Premiata Forneria Marconi, Le Orme, Quella Vecchia Locanda among others. These two countries were the most prolific as far as progressive rock is concerned. Let's go back to England to focus on another subgenre that comes from the Canterbury county. Caravan defined that subgenre with their second album and bands like Hatfield and the North and later National Health followed (plus a band that didn't come from England but from the USA, Happy The Man). The first Gong album (Camembert Electrique, featuring Pip Pyle on drums who later joined Hatfield and National Health) belongs also to this subgenre. Daevid Allen (who later founded Gong) formed with Robert Wyatt Soft Machine, a band that could be regarded as belonging to the Canterbury scene for their first three releases, but that turned to jazz-fusion (with 'third'), another subgenre that included also later Bruford and Brand X, and in the USA Frank Zappa. So, at the beginning of the seventies, 3 subgenres are already established : symphonical (Yes, Genesis), canterbury (Caravan, earlier Gong), hard-prog (King Crimson, VDGG).

The seventies :           ;           ;           ;           ;           ;                                         After Syd Barrett left Pink Floyd, their music became softer with ethereal passages : they defined a new subgenre, space-rock. Gong were also following the same way with 'Angel's egg' (but with humour), their best record to date. After the Yardbirds split, Keith Relf formed with his wife Jane the band Renaissance, a group that blended folk music with progressive rock. Along with Jethro Tull, Renaissance were qualified as a folk-prog band. The popularity of Renaissance grew after Annie Haslam replaced Jane Relf on vocals and they released the great 'Scheherazade and other stories' in 1975. Jethro Tull released 'Aqualung' in 1971, an album that is considered as a classic today, but I would recommend the follow-up 'Thick as a brick' as an introduction to their contribution to the folk-prog scene. Another subgenre of the progressive rock was also developing in the seventies : art-rock, led by bands such as Supertramp, Roxy Music, 10 CC... These groups were playing a simpler music than in the other prog subgenres. In Germany, a group called Tangerine Dream was playing a music based exclusively on electronic instruments, hence their music was called 'Electronic' (or 'New Age'), although it may include many not electonic instruments (as is the case for Mike Oldfield ). Vangelis and Synergy belong also to this subgenre. Many of the german bands that appeared at the beginning of the seventies were classified as 'Krautrock', an additional subgenre of the progressive rock, including Grobschnitt, Amon Düül, Ash Ra Tempel. A minimalistic form of the 'electronic' music appeared also in the seventies : ambient. Kraftwerk, Brian Eno, Cluster belong to this category. Moreover, in England a subgenre based on improvisation and with a jazz background appeared in 1973 with the release of Henry Cow's 'Leg End' (RIO, rock in opposition). This subgenre is recommended only to fans of free-jazz or those who like exploration. I forgot to mention that Emerson, Lake and Palmer, a band that gathered members of King Crimson, Atomic Rooster and The Nice released albums ('Tarkus' being regarded as their best) belonging to a subgenre called classical-prog, as they often feature a song that is an adaptation of a piece of classical music (Pictures at an exhibition for example). The Nice and Rick Wakeman belong also to this subgenre. In the USA, some groups tried to mix hard-rock with progressive elements, such bands are Rush, Styx among others (Kansas could also be added to this category but it is also close to the english symphonic prog scene). They were called pomp-prog as the intros and outros of some of their songs are 'pompous'. I mentioned previously the development of a jazz-fusion scene with Brand X (featuring Phil Collins), Bruford, and Zappa, the music of this latter could be considered as a unique subgenre (mix of jazz, doo-wap, rock...). Another band was also strongly rooted in jazz but included also influences ranging from Stockhausen  to Duke Ellington, via opera : Magma, who created the Zeuhl subgenre, with a language intelligible only by them (kobaïa). So, at the end of the seventies you have 10 new subgenres in the progressive rock : art-rock, folk-prog, classical-prog, RIO, jazz-fusion, Zeuhl, ambient, electronic, krautrock, pomp-prog.

The eighties : The progressive rock was supplanted by the punk movement at the end of the seventies, a 'music' which aim was to prove that everyone could play music. Punk gave rise to the cold wave  in the eighties and prog rock was reduced to what was called neo-prog (a simpler form of the symphonic prog but with much present drums), and an embryon of what became at the beginning of the nineties the metal-prog. Saga were probably the first to play this neo-prog, but Marillion and IQ are the best representatives of this subgenre. Landmark albums include 'Misplaced childhood' by Marillion and 'Ever' by IQ.

The nineties : metal-prog developed with Dream Theater's 'Images and words'. However, in the eighties some groups were already playing a heavy-metal-based progressive music : Queensryche, Fates Warning, Watchtower. Thanks to Mike Varney in the USA, who founded the prog label Magna Carta, and in Europe the Inside Out label, the nineties saw a revival of the prog-rock (mainly metal-prog). In the USA, apart from metal-prog, Spock's Beard were playing a symphonical prog with references to Gentle Giant and Genesis and Echolyn and Izz were playing a music closer to neo-prog. In the Northern Europe, a scandinavian symphonic prog scene developed with bands such as The Flower Kings, Anglagard and Sinkadus. A post-RIO scene also developed with Djam Karet, Thinking Plague... Some groups play jazz-fusion : Kenso, Cartoone, Deus ex Machina. Porcupine Tree and Ozric Tentacles play space-rock. Collage, Clepsydra are great bands that are strongly influenced by IQ and Marillion. Thus, in the nineties you have a revival of the prog scene not only with the appearance of a new subgenre : metal-prog but also with bands playing the styles developed in the seventies.

I hope these informations will help you in your investigation.

"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
Back to Top
lucas View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2004 at 12:34

You can add :

Zappa (sixties, seventies, eighties, (nineties ?))

Bruford (seventies)

Tangerine Dream (seventies, eighties, nineties)

Greenslade (seventies)

Utopia (seventies)

Happy The Man (seventies)

Kansas (seventies, eighties...)

Supertramp (seventies)

Roxy music (seventies, eighties)

Egg (seventies)

Hatfiels and the North (seventies)

National Health (seventies)

Synergy (seventies, eighties)

UK (seventies)

Dixie Dregs (seventies, eighties, nineties)

Henry Cow (seventies)

Le Orme (sixties, seventies)

Locanda delle fate (seventies)

Gryphon (seventies)

"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
Back to Top
Vibrationbaby View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2004 at 14:09
Whoa Lucas! Ithink you just wrote the guy's school assignment for him!
Back to Top
Alexander View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 237
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2004 at 15:18

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Whoa Lucas! Ithink you just wrote the guy's school assignment for him!

Yeah, pretty much.

On A Dilemmia Between What I Need & What I Just Want

Back to Top
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2004 at 10:53

To Lucas:

- First of all: THANK YOU!  for taking the time to help me (and how!)

- I think there still are some discutable points (10cc and Roxy Music are not considered prog by everybody)

- You named some sub-genres that I won't use. I had already decided that I would use the sub-genres as mentioned on the progarchives homepage.

- There's already a whole chapter in my paper about Zappa and Beefheart (I think they were the 'pioneers')

- Also THANKS for the bandnames I forgot. I heard UK deservers a special place! And Bruford's a legend...

- My problem was that I didn't grow up in the seventies and I'm not familiar with all progressive rock sub-genres. You really helped me out here!

THANKS

A

LOT

!!

Back to Top
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2004 at 10:56

By the way: Do you think I mentioned any bands that don't deserve it?

Back to Top
lucas View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2004 at 13:29
I am 24 years old, so I didn't know the seventies too. About the bands you mentioned, I think they all deserve to be cited.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
Back to Top
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2004 at 13:32
Thanks
Back to Top
maani View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Founding Moderator

Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2004 at 20:10

Joren/Lucas:

First, I am one who does believe that 10CC is "prog," to be placed in the same category as Supertramp.  (After all, they were heavily influenced by one another, so if Supertramp deserves a spot, so does 10CC).

There are at least two other bands - one "accepted," one not - that I would add to the list.  Although something of a latecomer to the prog scene, The Church began recording in the early 80s, and is now considered by many to be a leader in the prog movement (just look at the reviews of their most recent album!).

Also, XTC deserves a place here, also in the same general category as Supertramp and 10CC.

Note to Lucas: Did you study the genre specifically?  Because at 24, you sound like one of us "older" folks who actually lived through the entire prog era, right from the beginning.

Peace.

Back to Top
maani View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Founding Moderator

Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2004 at 20:20

Joren:

BTW, you might want to check out the following three "threads" for additional discussions on prog:

"Is classic prog timeless?"

"Fly Like An Eagle..."

"What defines prog music?"

All three have interesting, informative discussions on progressive music.

Peace.

Back to Top
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2004 at 07:01

- About XTC and 10cc: Thanks for the suggestions, but I'm looking for highly influential bands like GG and Yes. I think I didn't forget any major acts...

- About "What defines prog?": I checked that topic and I think it's very interesting. I like to use the defenition given on the progarchives homepage:

PROGRESSIVE ROCK — a style that combines rock, classical, psychedelic (And I think 'jazz' should be added here) and literary elements — was born in the late '60s with art-rock bands like Pink Floyd and King Crimson, whose albums typically featured 7 to 10 minutes songs with shifting time signatures and evolving musical themes.

Joren

P.S. Lucas' knowledge is indeed stunning!

Back to Top
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2004 at 07:03
Addition: I think the most important thing about prog is, that the music crosses borders and combines several styles in great, lengthy songs. And a typical thing about prog is that many bands love the mellotron and the flute.
Back to Top
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2004 at 16:59

 Lucas: Good, thoughtful essay outline! Lots of work -- well done!

 One minor correction: RUSH are from Canada, not America. Sometimes, outside North America, there's a tendency to equate North America (Canada, United States & Mexico) with America (the U.S. only). That's like saying that Austria is a part of Germany, that Great Britain is the same as England, that New Zealand is the same as Australia, or that France belongs to Spain! Canada has roughly 1/10th of the population of the U.S., so has proportionally fewer internationally-successful bands -- especially prog bands! Thus, we tend to be proud of the ones we have, and Rush is one of OURS!

I also wouldn't call the music of Kraftwerk "ambient." It's much too structured and dynamic and lively to fit in with (early) Tangerine Dream and Eno's "shapeless," flowing ambient recordings. I have trouble with the whole sub-genre of "Krautrock," for that matter. It seems to imply a sameness, or a lack of diversity in German rock, which is just not the reality. I also think that the term "Kraut" is likely insulting to many Germans, coming as it does from WW1 & WW2 Allied soldiers' nickname for the Germans, who were supposed to eat a lot of saurkraut, which is "sour" (or pickled) cabbage. Thus, "Kraut" seems to mean "cabbage." How would the rest of us like our music to be labelled "Limeyrock," "Japrock" ("Ricerock?"), "Canuckrock," "Spicrock," "Yankrock," "Pastarock," or "Frogrock?" Food for thought....

PS to Joren: Good luck with the essay!



Edited by Peter Rideout
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
semismart View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 05 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 139
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2004 at 20:14
Hey, I didn't see Argent, Uriah Heep, Blood sweat and Tears, Iron Butterfly, Rare Earth, Cream, or The Chambers Brothers mentioned.
<i>Sports cars</i>, helping ugly men get sex since 1954.
Back to Top
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2004 at 04:18
Originally posted by Peter Rideout Peter Rideout wrote:

 Lucas: Good, thoughtful essay outline! Lots of work -- well done!

 One minor correction: RUSH are from Canada, not America. Sometimes, outside North America, there's a tendency to equate North America (Canada, United States & Mexico) with America (the U.S. only). That's like saying that Austria is a part of Germany, that Great Britain is the same as England, that New Zealand is the same as Australia, or that France belongs to Spain! Canada has roughly 1/10th of the population of the U.S., so has proportionally fewer internationally-successful bands -- especially prog bands! Thus, we tend to be proud of the ones we have, and Rush is one of OURS!

I also wouldn't call the music of Kraftwerk "ambient." It's much too structured and dynamic and lively to fit in with (early) Tangerine Dream and Eno's "shapeless," flowing ambient recordings. I have trouble with the whole sub-genre of "Krautrock," for that matter. It seems to imply a sameness, or a lack of diversity in German rock, which is just not the reality. I also think that the term "Kraut" is likely insulting to many Germans, coming as it does from WW1 & WW2 Allied soldiers' nickname for the Germans, who were supposed to eat a lot of saurkraut, which is "sour" (or pickled) cabbage. Thus, "Kraut" seems to mean "cabbage." How would the rest of us like our music to be labelled "Limeyrock," "Japrock" ("Ricerock?"), "Canuckrock," "Spicrock," "Yankrock," "Pastarock," or "Frogrock?" Food for thought....

PS to Joren: Good luck with the essay!

Kraftwerk: I don't think it's ambient either.

Krautrock: The problem is, everybody is familiar with that name now... and 'ricerock' sounds pretty cool!

Back to Top
Joren View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2004 at 04:19

Originally posted by semismart semismart wrote:

Hey, I didn't see Argent, Uriah Heep, Blood sweat and Tears, Iron Butterfly, Rare Earth, Cream, or The Chambers Brothers mentioned.

I'm trying to talk only about PURE prog rock. Iron Butterfly had their great song, but they're not considered real prog, as far as I know... And have you seen my list? I've got enough to do!

Back to Top
janhuss View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2004 at 04:25
between the most important prog. rock bands of the 90s (not prog. metal): anglagard, anekdoten & porcupine tree.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.

Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.