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Mandrakeroot 
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
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Points: 5851
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 Topic: John Cale
Posted: August 22 2006 at 13:18 |
Do you knows John Cale?
Are you for this Inclusion?
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Dirk
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Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: August 22 2006 at 13:39 |
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I know him, have listened a lot to his music some 15 years ago loved it back then (and sort of forgot about him don't know why). He's very very good. Some of his music is surely progrelated at least a lot of his work is pure rock though.
You could also argue that if he is included for work such as "Academy in peril" then Philip Glass should be here too so maybe inclusion opens cans of worms that are better kept closed.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 19597
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 03:48 |
only two proggish albums from him: Paris 1919 and the awesome Church of Anthrax , a collab with minimalist master Terry Riley. Academy In Peril is also noteworthy
As for the rest of his 70's discography >> not prog
I have not heard most of the soundtracks the man has done for those French film d'autheur makers, so I am not 100% sure, though
Prog related at best, but would rather not see him included.
Edited by Sean Trane - August 23 2006 at 03:49
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 05:19 |
 Sean Trane wrote:
only two proggish albums from him: Paris 1919 and the awesome Church of Anthrax , a collab with minimalist master Terry Riley. Academy In Peril is also noteworthy
As for the rest of his 70's discography >> not prog
I have not heard most of the soundtracks the man has done for those French film d'autheur makers, so I am not 100% sure, though
Prog related at best, but would rather not see him included. |
Nevertheless I believe that for his collaborations and in general for its story it is an artist to include. I is not all right in the it include the Velvet Underground but I should say that I thought that an open a page of John Cale is just actual for be able to deepen its discs (also those in collaboration) because its disc with Kevin Ayers, Eno and Nico ("1st June, 1974") for me  was appraised but in its discography I would appraise . It is an example, alone an example, but I believe of the concept.
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Dirk
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 1043
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 06:36 |
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IMO Velvet underground might be included in proto prog for their influence on early krautrock (ADII). Not certain if that is reason enough.
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 08:06 |
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I wouldn't include him. I love his work from 'Paris 1919' through 'Helen Of Troy'(my personal favourite), but it's not prog, despite various prog musicians cropping up on these. It's kind of art pop, occasionally verging on punk like nastiness- see 'Leaving It All Up To You', the seriously warped cover of 'Heartbreak Hotel' and 'Pablo Picasso', and Scott Walker style torch balladeering on the sublime 'I Keep A Close Watch' and 'I'm Not The Loving Kind'. But no prog, imo, alas.
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Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:32 |
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I prefer the earlier, minimalist phase of his career (Paris is stunning though). Just listen to the "New York in the 60's" material, amazing stuff. If anything he would be prog-related, but I still am hesitant about including him.
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19597
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:33 |
Zac M wrote:
I prefer the earlier, minimalist phase of his career (Paris is stunning though). Just listen to the "New York in the 60's" material, amazing stuff. If anything he would be prog-related, but I still am hesitant about including him. |
Exactly!
And the thing is that once he is in others will want VU and ultimately Lou reed
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:35 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Zac M wrote:
I prefer the earlier, minimalist phase of his career (Paris is stunning though). Just listen to the "New York in the 60's" material, amazing stuff. If anything he would be prog-related, but I still am hesitant about including him. |
Exactly!
And the thing is that once he is in others will want VU and ultimately Lou reed |
Here we go with the Prog-related-related again. By the way, how is the Godley and Creme addition coming   .
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2084
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Posted: October 10 2006 at 07:34 |
The "Is it prog?" question is just too much - the question is simply too subjective. A concrete answer is absolutely impossible. Genesis is prog, but, then again, they aren't! Could you call Invisible Touch or even the Genesis album progressive? At the same time, Cale's Church of Anthrax, Academy in Peril, Honi Soit, Sabotage/Live, Wrong Way Up (with Eno), and his Inside the Dream Syndicate series can only be labeled as progressive....I mean, what else could you call them? Aural expirments in chaos, sublimity under a gnarl of noises? It's certainly more prog than 80s Genesis.
To argue if an artists with progressive tendencies should be added to the PA site is just spinning wheels when we should be spinning discs....go out and get yourself some John Cale music! I suggest starting with the lovely Paris 1919 (probably the least progressive of his solo albums)....and his Island LPs, Helen of Troy, Fear and Slow Dazzle.
Those artists on the cusp of being called progressive - artists such as Cale, the Velvets, late 80s Talk Talk, and the Grateful Dead, to name just a few - are, I'm sure, of great interest to rock fans who frequent this site. I've discovered a slew of new bands on this site and am constantly digging for more.....but I'd hate to think that the PA closes its doors to those artists not deemed worthy of discovery. I believe many prog fans who haven't already been turned onto those artists on the cusp would delight in new discoveries.
pssssst, an invaluable tip: pick up some Grateful Dead....you'll never regret it!
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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