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SolariS View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dredg - El Cielo > King Crimson - ITCOTCK
    Posted: September 03 2006 at 19:13

Or so say the ratings...LOLShockedCryDead
 
Whereas King Crimson has a very rich, diverse sound, Dredg feels very tired and repetitive. I like them for about 2 songs, but then I get bored and have to find something else to listen to. Does anybody else feel this way? Am I the only one who doesn't get Dredg?


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mccrank_yeahrig View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 19:21
    Me neither, I think that Dredg and King Crimson cannot be compared, but it's just my opinion....
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SolariS View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 19:26
Originally posted by mccrank_yeahrig mccrank_yeahrig wrote:

    Me neither, I think that Dredg and King Crimson cannot be compared, but it's just my opinion....



you can find similarities and differences between any two bands. I was merely noting that El Cielo is considered more of a masterpiece of art rock than In the Court... (although I doubt very many people would actually consider this the case).



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 19:40
More people have heard In the Court, thus more have been able to reach the conclusion that they don't like it as much and have been able to rate it lower.  There's absolutely no basis upon which to compare them whatsoever, though I personally would take El Cielo over In the Court any day, this is merely personal opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 19:55

Originally posted by Bryan Bryan wrote:

More people have heard In the Court, thus more have been able to reach the conclusion that they don't like it as much and have been able to rate it lower.


I see it the other way around. More people have heard In the Court, thus more are able to reach the conclusion that it is a masterpiece!


Originally posted by Bryan Bryan wrote:

There's absolutely no basis upon which to compare them whatsoever, though I personally would take El Cielo over In the Court any day, this is merely personal opinion.



Why is everyone so close minded to comparison? You can compare any 2 things. Bands don't have to sound the same to be compared. Watch:

I believe that King Crimson is better than Brittney Spears. While many of her fans would disagree with me, I find that manufacturing of 'hits' detracts from my ability to take interest in her music. While it may be ok to listen to once, when given more in depth attention and criticism, the music becomes stale and even annoying. On the other hand, the complexity of a band like King Crimson makes repeated listens more enjoyable with time.



Look mom, I made a comparison! And brittney spears is even more different from KC than Dredg. So don't say that you can't compare Dredg and KC. The fact that they both produce music is enough to form an opinion.




Edited by SolariS - September 03 2006 at 19:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 20:19
Originally posted by SolariS SolariS wrote:

Why is everyone so close minded to comparison? You can compare any 2 things. Bands don't have to sound the same to be compared. Watch:

I believe that King Crimson is better than Brittney Spears. While many of her fans would disagree with me, I find that manufacturing of 'hits' detracts from my ability to take interest in her music. While it may be ok to listen to once, when given more in depth attention and criticism, the music becomes stale and even annoying. On the other hand, the complexity of a band like King Crimson makes repeated listens more enjoyable with time.



Look mom, I made a comparison! And brittney spears is even more different from KC than Dredg. So don't say that you can't compare Dredg and KC. The fact that they both produce music is enough to form an opinion.




Clap Couldn't agree more.   I've expressed the same at these boards, but it seem we're in a minority.

I like to compare and contrast.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 20:31
Ele Cielo is the second most overrated album on PA, Townsend's Syncestra being the first. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 21:01
Those who believe progrock is a style of music, rather than simply nothing more than original/experimental, are by far the minority here. These are the people that will generally focus on the classics. Classic examples: Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Hawkwind, Camel, Caravan, Rush, and Van Der Graaf Generator.
 
This site has entered an age of Pain of Salvation, Opeth, Dream Theater, Marillion, IQ, Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Tool, and even the site's new little baby, little Dredgy.
 
Ratings work for you when you're with the majority, obviously, but theres a difference between what was considered progrock, and what is often considered progressive music today, regardless of who is correct in actuality.
 
Expect MANY new albums from last year, this year, and years to come to surprass Close To The Edge, Lamb Dies on Broadway, Octopus, In The Court..., Thick As A Brick, and so on.
 
More people on this website are here for the modern aspect. That's a blessing and a curse.
 
This site gets a hell of a lot more views from the new things it adds, usually modern bands/artists. On the other hand, If one is to forget where he came from, how can he say he has progressed at all in life?

 
Expect a wave of praise for new age "prog", now and later.


Edited by NotSoKoolAid - September 03 2006 at 21:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 22:10
El Cielo is a masterpiece and I might be a little biased since I just got ITCOTCK a few days ago. Both are deserving of high praise in my opinion.
butts, lol
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 22:40
Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

Ele Cielo is the second most overrated album on PA, Townsend's Syncestra being the first. 
 
Mmm.. i know every mind its a different world... but...why are you saying this?
 
I  love both albums, and i dont care if El Cielo has something to do with ITCOTCK, but what im sure is that is NOT an overrated album...
You can love or hate an album or so, but say that is overrated (in this case talking about El Cielo) its an exaggeration. 

Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 22:49
I've seen dredg live, but don't own their albums, so I cannot really comment, but they were excellent live and I was very impressed.

However, ItCotCK was my first ream prog album, so it'll also be special to me.  Not only that, but it was one of the forerunners of the prog movement all together.

In time, I suspect El Cielo will drop down the rankings and something new will rise up, only to fall again.  That's how these things worth, generally.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 23:12
Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

Ele Cielo is the second most overrated album on PA, Townsend's Syncestra being the first. 


Why? Because you don't like them?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 23:33
Ratings only matter as much as you let them...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 23:49
Originally posted by chamberry chamberry wrote:

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

Ele Cielo is the second most overrated album on PA, Townsend's Syncestra being the first. 


Why? Because you don't like them?
 
To call something "Essential A Masterpiece of Progressive Music" is a bold statemnt, and suggests that any album that merits that description must be impeccable, regardless of  your preferences in prog musc or in genreal.  A masterpiece enatils, flawlessness, Grade A muscianship, overall its must be impeccable and enthralling. 
 
 
For instance
 
Godbluff is a prime example poignant lyrcism and impeccable muscianship; the whole album consistent from begining to end and every song on the album is captivating.  Moreover, the album is emotioanlly charged, its not too long, not too short, not pretentious, not uneventful, it is, simply, put masterful. 
 
 
Thus, you have the ingredients for a masterpiece of progressive music. 
 
The more unfortunate fact, is that if the aforementioned citeria are necessary for a a msterpiece of progressive music why do many people unwittingly brand a particular album a masterpiece, if the album lacks one or more of the citeria mentioned above. 
 
In the realm of prog, there are universal understandings
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2006 at 00:53
Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:


 
To call something "Essential A Masterpiece of Progressive Music" is a bold statemnt, and suggests that any album that merits that description must be impeccable, regardless of  your preferences in prog musc or in genreal.  A masterpiece enatils, flawlessness, Grade A muscianship, overall its must be impeccable and enthralling. 
 
 




Word.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2006 at 01:20
Except Still Life is a better album. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2006 at 14:24
Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

Originally posted by chamberry chamberry wrote:

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

Ele Cielo is the second most overrated album on PA, Townsend's Syncestra being the first. 


Why? Because you don't like them?
 
To call something "Essential A Masterpiece of Progressive Music" is a bold statemnt, and suggests that any album that merits that description must be impeccable, regardless of  your preferences in prog musc or in genreal.  A masterpiece enatils, flawlessness, Grade A muscianship, overall its must be impeccable and enthralling. 
 
 
For instance
 
Godbluff is a prime example poignant lyrcism and impeccable muscianship; the whole album consistent from begining to end and every song on the album is captivating.  Moreover, the album is emotioanlly charged, its not too long, not too short, not pretentious, not uneventful, it is, simply, put masterful. 
 
 
Thus, you have the ingredients for a masterpiece of progressive music. 
 
The more unfortunate fact, is that if the aforementioned citeria are necessary for a a msterpiece of progressive music why do many people unwittingly brand a particular album a masterpiece, if the album lacks one or more of the citeria mentioned above. 
 
In the realm of prog, there are universal understandings
 
 


You have to remember that what you see as flawless other might not see it as so. For example I don't see Godbluff as a masterpice, but I find Pawn Hearts to be better than Godbluff because it follows my idea of what is a better album or a masterpiece.

Everyone has their own point of view on what a masterpiece is.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2006 at 14:29
Exactly, Chamberry.  I myself think Still Life and Pawn Hearts are both masterpieces, yet both albums are quite a lot different in sound and that's also true progression in that sense of the world.

It's all gravy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2006 at 14:56
Tired and repetitive to you, not so tired and repetitive to me. I agree with Bryan on bot points that I like El Cielo more than ITCOTCK, and that popularity matters. Look at how many negative reviews ITCOFCK has and how many El Cielo has. Last time I checked there was one 3-star review and the rest were 4-5.  Don't forget that ITCHYCOCK is still #7 in the top 100 and first in art rock top 100 with its 365 ratings, and El Cielo is on 31 with 28 ratings most of which are fans. Not many enough people know Dredg to be able to rate then low, whoever knows them and takes time to review them are fans, simple as that.




Edited by The Miracle - September 04 2006 at 16:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2006 at 15:57
^Yep. And I also agree with Bryan that I would take El Cielo over In the Court... any day.
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