Classical Music

To say Classical Music is proto-prog, is an outrage; I'm sorry to say that. 

Classical Music is, up to now, the most extensive period of music history, stretching at least from the XIII century (in a definite way), on to present time (at least till the disambiguation that started within the 40s, 50).

ELP's work on Mussorgsky's Picture isn't the progress. Mussorgsky's Picture is itself the progress, the state of the art, the touch of grace and inspiration. ELP just rightfully transposed that into the rock feeling and into the mild representation.

Richard Wagner, with its monumentality scale, mystification attitude and its leit-motif effect would be something far from the Crimson void, recklessness and so on.

BEETHOVEN ISN'T NOWHERE NEAR A CONNECTION WITH GENESIS.

BACH, THE RIGOROUS, THE ARMONIC, THE GENIOUS "ORCHESTRATOR" AND THE SIMPLE PERFECTION, ISN'T NEAR THE PSYCHEDELIC, DISPERSED, TONE-DRIVEN PINK FLOYD.

I must say you judge things at least awfully strange, Nathanson. You are surely not into Classical Music one bit. However the spectre remains the same, detached, unaffected et caetera. You are simply using words, making ideas and linking names that don't have anything in common.

(to not say that everything else started from Classical Music or the Classical Music is the most divine form of music, bla bla bla...)





Edited by Ricochet - October 07 2006 at 04:03

now this second statement of yours is much more adequate.

Nathanson wrote: But the roots of Prog was in Jazz and Classical Music. l

that, however, doesn't mean proto-prog.

• Classical Music isn't prog
• Classical Music was before all else, but not actually before prog
• Classical Music doesn't define prog.

and things like that.

"For my money", it's out of the discussion for classical music to be anything prog.

Viceversa, things could symbolically be interpreted, but with the carefullness of an annotated term or intention.

*sigh just as well* I don't think you're "stupid or anything"; you just presented the thought without insight.

by the underlined idea, I must say that having classical musicians around the band or having classic-factor instruments within the composition doesn't really make it a strong connection with Classical Music. Sure the Atom Heart Mother composition has its orchestral reprises. But just how Ivan denies the connection or orchestral meaning symphonic (off-subject!), I deny the true and eloquent relation between an orchestrated composition and a classical music compound. The choice of playing the music by an orchestra or by a facsimil essence of classical methods aren't that convincing. Rick Wakeman's Journey remains a symphonic masterpiece, with or without the effect of a tutti...

(on other hands, I would certainly point out Waters' Ca Ira as a real connection with what lies in the Opera maneuver. Here are strings attached, here are the movements proper. However not even concerning him is the connection absolute, neither an idea of classical being prog or prog being the post-movement of classical - "roots")

In essence, Prog remains Prog and Classical remains Classical. By this, I am not saying at all that the two are intangible disciplines, but only that distinctions must be made.

Proto-Prog is for music that influenced Prog bands. Classical music influenced Prog bands. Classical music is Proto-Prog.

See now why Proto-Prog is such a problem child? Get rid of it! Please!

Pretentious, Hackneyed, at times, Vapid

some ROCK STARS are musicians with Classical Music education, as Rick Wakeman for example, who learned to be a clasicall pianist at Royal Colledge of Music, but never get a diploma, and he was to discharge from that institution (because he was playin' ROCK in the clubs & studios), but the results of that fusion are not so great from todays view , IMO, but with all of respect 'cause it was one brave experiment, NO DOUBT!

Edited by gong - October 09 2006 at 05:26

Goldenavatar wrote:  The thing that really separates prog from any other form of music is its use of harmony, modality, scales, and other tonal aspects. Prog utilizes these things in a way classical music does not, hence separating the two genres.

well I don't want to put the rain over you, but classical music actually comprises all the "things" said completely, plus so much better. "we" even have the discipline of harmony.  however it's best to say that all music contains its harmony, its modality, its scales and its tonal aspects (except those who just bash music, or mock those "things). they are after all, "things" of music...

otherwise, an argument upon which I comfortably agree.


Edited by Ricochet - October 25 2006 at 11:17

classic can't be mixed with prog... it'S an other genre... you can't mix music from the XIV century with prog... prog is inspire with classic but don't improve it... Pictures from ELP is not improve only adapeted...

Thanks Iván for that short word regarding my opinion, I didn't meant no offence to anyone, just stating my point of view from the few I know as a classical music "person". I just can't treat this mildly, like it's a superficial "examination"; a bit of documentation from both sides is always the perfect thing. Fine explanations of yours, from the prog view.


Edited by Ricochet - October 25 2006 at 15:41

Ricochet wrote: Goldenavatar wrote:  The thing that really separates prog from any other form of music is its use of harmony, modality, scales, and other tonal aspects. Prog utilizes these things in a way classical music does not, hence separating the two genres. well I don't want to put the rain over you, but classical music actually comprises all the "things" said completely, plus so much better. "we" even have the discipline of harmony.  however it's best to say that all music contains its harmony, its modality, its scales and its tonal aspects (except those who just bash music, or mock those "things). they are after all, "things" of music... otherwise, an argument upon which I comfortably agree.