Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Carl Palmer as a drummer?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedCarl Palmer as a drummer?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>
Author
Message
spleenache View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Carl Palmer as a drummer?
    Posted: December 26 2006 at 19:52

I have seen ELP in concert several times. I have always wandered about Carl Palmer's technical drumming skills. Greg was in control of the stage through his singing. Keith… well he was all over the place with his act and incredible pile of electronics. It looked like Carl was surrounding himself with the most outrageous drum set one could ever imagine just to keep up with the other two.

 

During the spring of 1974 I was in London and ELP had a long string of concerts in Wembley. I remember going to two of the seven or so concerts they had. During my second attendance day, I was very close to the stage and I remember being surprised by the size of the drum kit. There was no way he could possibly reach some of the drums at the outer reaches of his kit unless he got up walked around and started playing them. So I watched him very closely. By the end of the concert he has not even hit those outer lying drums even once. That day the magic of their music was lost to me. I felt that the whole thing was nothing but a stage show. No intrinsic value at all.

 

I also had a chance to see drummers like Bill Bruford both in Yes and King Crimson. The guy had a one of the smallest drum kits but boy could he ever play.

 

The question: how would you compare drumming skills of Carl with respect to his contemporaries?
Back to Top
el böthy View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6336
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 20:15
Well first of all...Bruford is like the best think behind the kitWink

But I always thought, and actually know, that Palmer is one of the very best. I think his drumming hability is unquestionably good, make that excellent!  Yet...you might be right about the whole "show" thing. Well, ELP had too much show maybe...I mean, did you see how Lake dressed???Confused So, yes you might be right about that...
I remeber seeing the Isle of Whight perfomance of them and Palmer had a normal kit and he plyed excellent with it... so the monstruo kit must have been cause he must have felt like he didnt get much attention ...well, I kinda understand that if you have that hyperactive keyboards virtoso and lake trying to show as much chest hair as possibleLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

"You want me to play what, Robert?"
Back to Top
cuncuna View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4318
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 20:24
Better than "Carl Palmer as Obi Wan Kenobi" I guess.
¡Beware of the Bee!
   
Back to Top
Masque View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 01 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 808
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 20:40
Palmer is a great drummer  Smile

Back to Top
Nowhere Man View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 29 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 207
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 20:42
I imagine he was just trying to be fancy. 
Back to Top
Sasquamo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 26 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 828
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 20:46
Carl Palmer is a very skilled drummer, and from listening to recordings, I think I'll be bold enough to say he's better than Bill Bruford!
Back to Top
spleenache View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 20:52
Originally posted by Sasquamo

Carl Palmer is a very skilled drummer, and from listening to recordings, I think I'll be bold enough to say he's better than Bill Bruford!
 
Respectfully I disagree. Bruford demonstrated his skills and ability to drum in diversely different environments to this day. If you get a chance please listen one of Brufords recent Earthworks recordings. He now became one of the most respected jazz drummers of our time.
Back to Top
rushaholic View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 13 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1062
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 20:59
Originally posted by Sasquamo

Carl Palmer is a very skilled drummer, and from listening to recordings, I think I'll be bold enough to say he's better than Bill Bruford!


Yeah, he is a good drummer but a far cry from Bruford.
Back to Top
Father Tiresias View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 23 2005
Location: Colombia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 101
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 21:00
Palmer is one of the bests drummers I've heard. you would not find this style of drumming in early 70's so easily. fast, agressive and technical. 

Bruford was sort of technical and experimental. but i'd choose Bruford over Palmer





Edited by Father Tiresias - December 26 2006 at 21:18
Back to Top
akiko View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 18 2005
Location: The Cinema Show
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 169
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 21:11
CP is one of the most influential prog drummers ever.  Keep in mind that a big part of ELP concerts was showmanship (like setting organs on fire, etc). 

I remember Phil Ehart of Kansas having three bass drums I believe for the Vinyl Confessions tour, and me thinking, when did he grow a third leg?  Also Alex Van Halen had three or four bass drums at one time.  And they are both great drummers too. 

I guess sometimes people just get caught up on how cool things look and add stuff just for the visual factor.  Nothing wrong with that.

I have a cousin that has a VW Beetle engine mounted on the chassis of a Ferrari.  Looks awesome but goes from 0 to 60 in about 30 minutes...
Back to Top
sleeper View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15252
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 21:13
Palmer's drumming on Brain Salad Surgery is very good and the drumming is the best thing on Asia's first few releases. Definitely a very good drummer. 

Edited by sleeper - December 26 2006 at 21:13
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

Back to Top
cuncuna View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4318
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 21:20
Audience is tough here...
¡Beware of the Bee!
   
Back to Top
spleenache View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 21:21
Originally posted by akiko



I have a cousin that has a VW Beetle engine mounted on the chassis of a Ferrari.  Looks awesome but goes from 0 to 60 in about 30 minutes...
 
Your cousin must be one cool doode
Back to Top
Sasquamo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 26 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 828
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 21:29
Originally posted by spleenache

Originally posted by Sasquamo

Carl Palmer is a very skilled drummer, and from listening to recordings, I think I'll be bold enough to say he's better than Bill Bruford!
 
Respectfully I disagree. Bruford demonstrated his skills and ability to drum in diversely different environments to this day. If you get a chance please listen one of Brufords recent Earthworks recordings. He now became one of the most respected jazz drummers of our time.


I'm not quite sure what people see in Bill Bruford.  I see a very good drummer, but I don't see anything that floors me and makes me wonder how he did that.  I really start to wonder if maybe Bruford has an unfair advantage simply because he was in Yes and King Crimson, possibly the two most respected bands on this site.  And I don't think I would call Bruford one of the most respected jazz drummers of our time.  He's definitely the most respected drummer in jazz on this site, but in the real jazz world, I'm pretty sure he's not a very big name.
Back to Top
yesfan26 View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 21:33
Carl Palmer is just awesome technically. In my opinion, Palmer absolutely demolishes Peart and Bruford. Peart is great and all, so is Bruford. But Peart is way too in depth and Bruford is a groover and doesn't like to solo really in the sense of Neil Peart mode. Carl Palmer brings agility and speed that Peart tries to bring but chokes with the indepth approach of a drum solo.
 
Bruford is the Stewart Copeland of prog
 
Peart is prog
 
Palmer is the Buddy Rich of prog!


Edited by yesfan26 - December 26 2006 at 21:52
Back to Top
dwill123 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 19 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1683
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 21:45
I like Bill Bruford a lot (and I mean a lot). But that said, he's no Carl Palmer who I consider to be one of the best (if not the best) rock drummer.
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Symphonic Prog Specialist

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17676
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 23:04

A drummer develops his style according ro the environment in which he works, Carl palmer is a classical Power Trio drummer:

  1. Fast, strong and loud (Power trios need loud drummer).
  2. Great bass drum work
  3. Not as good with the snares
  4. His use of the cymbals is far from perfect
  5. Not very good keeping times
  6. Spectacular and a great sense of showmanship

For example the Jazz drummers are normally much better with the cymbals and snares but weaker with the bass drum, look at Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel had to add extra bass drum in their first albums and live acts (Look at any Gabriel era photo and you'll see a bass drum before Peter Gabriel).

Still Palmer is a top drummer compared with anybody.
 
Iván  


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 26 2006 at 23:04
Back to Top
endlessepic View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2006 at 23:10
Bruford was a an awesome drummer, "Close To The Edge" alone should show you that, but as I was playing along (on drums) to the entire BSS album today it really hit home how innovative Palmer was. He is my personal fave, although im not going to get into a better then _____ debate, I do think he was one of the prog drummer kings. Every time I listen to Pirates I wonder how he managed to do incredibly difficult beats and still let it meet the framework of the song. His drum solos are fantastic and hes just overall incredible.
As for show...who cares if his drum set is big, so is Neal Pearts set! He was from the 70's, thats the way things roll, it doesnt take away from his amazing ability.
Palmer absolutely rocks!
Back to Top
eitandaniel View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: December 26 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2006 at 00:04
    well, carl used to be my favoutie technical drummer back when i started to listen to prog. of course things have changed since then as i can see that he is probably indeed more technical than musical and his ability to nnovate and grow as a performer has been limited (although surprisingly with his new trio he appeared to have aquired new zist and energy).

i think others have figured out that he probably wanted to impress th emasses, but of course for the discering music lover who can see thoguh acts and true abilites this can be a real turn off.

to me bruford is a great example of a true musical innovator, his drums and music has and continue to stand the test of time and he is a delight to listen and watch at all times.

still, carl can play liek the devil so let's keep that in perspective,
eitan
Back to Top
smithers View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: October 30 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2006 at 02:09
Bruford was just a good drummer until the late 70s. He had improved alot around the UK era. Michael Giles was a better drummer than Bruford in the early 70s. Palmer was probably a touch better than Bruford in the early 70s too.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.