Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Blogs
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - My Defense of Modern Music
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedMy Defense of Modern Music

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
Figglesnout View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
Direct Link To This Post Topic: My Defense of Modern Music
    Posted: January 22 2007 at 19:29
    There was a brief day in the history of mankind when an artist could release essentially whatever he felt like without the grating pressure of a record company insisting on a single and without artistic restraints. This moment occurred many times in the late 60s and early 70s. Many would say without a second thought on the matter that those moments of brilliance and artistic development--which resulted in much output in our progressive territory--should be cited as the best moments in artistic rock music (I use the term to differentiate with preceding classical music) to this date. And many would agree, for who could deny the awesome power of such artistically strong and unhindered bands as King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Can, Camel, Gong, Zappa, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Yes, etc., etc.? Well, the answer is no one--at least no one who enjoys this era and realm of music, and certainly no one who grew up in this era--loving anything and everything it produced.
    But there are those that would argue--and those that do. I am one of those people. Before I proceed I’d like to note that I am especially fond of the music from this era, as--believe it or not, I grew up on it too--thanks to my Dad. However--there are many today who would argue that music past this generation of creativity is hardly worth listening to--these 70s purists--and this is the point I plan to argue. The idea that modern music is not forward thinking and nowhere near as creative as music from eras before it is based almost solely upon one argument: the invention of the computer and its effect on music and the music industry. (For the record I am directing this document at no one on this forum--I am writing this for school and for my own practical reasons).
    This argument, of course, has much in the form of validation--but, in my opinion, much more validation when we look at the good things this object has spawned. Now, of course the issue of music becoming “too easy” comes to mind. Many people bear the idea that in the Seventies it was harder to get your hands on a guitar, write some songs, promote yourself, and find a record company--and yes, it probably was--and yes, in this sense, music is “easier”. But then again, how is this not a good thing? Think of how many creative ideas the world would never hear if “becoming a band” was as difficult as it used to be. Ponder upon the notion that music stems from all people--essentially, it is conceivable that every band has one good song in them, and every person has the ability to write one good song or to put forth one good musical notion (I’m not saying every band/person takes advantage of this however…). If this is true (and generally speaking it is) then, in the Seventies, the chances were you’d hear, say, one out of a million of these ideas. Now, with some personal application and with a little broad-mindedness, you can hear (or create) much more, much faster. This stems partially from the Internet, which, accordingly, has “made the world a much smaller place”.
    Now, for the computer’s effect on the actual art of music we have several issues to face. One, is the high dosage of awful music produced with the machine--music that, unfortunately, is the music of our generation--of my generation. This is the one point that I cannot argue with justly. I would have been a much happier person had my fellow peers grown up loving Jethro Tull and Yes as opposed to Brittany Spears and Fallout Boy--but what can I do about it? This has no barrier on music in general in my opinion though--there has always been the mainstream, and computers aren’t very likely to change that. The difference now, is that music has become a large shelf. There is the music of the top shelf--our beloved mainstream music, then--underneath, there is everything else--and this is where the magic of the modern world occurs.
    This is where bands like Porcupine Tree, Mr. Bungle, Radiohead, The Mars Volta, Tool, Kayo Dot, Taal, Secret Chiefs 3, Godspeed You Black Emperor!, Explosions in the Sky (all post rock in my opinion), etc., etc., comes into play--this is where the creative bursts of energy shine the brightest--and this is the place we hang around and the place which I’ll defend until I die. All of the aforementioned bands (along with many, many more) are--in my opinion, just as talented and inventive (by today’s standard) as the bands from that Golden Age called the Seventies.
    This is easily argued against, of course, due to preference--but, no matter how you cut it, technically you can’t argue--the bands today are perhaps even more musically learned and technically adept than the bands of yesterday. These bands also have the added benefit of experimentational freedom due to “Indie” music and Self-Promoted music--and, again, The Internet. All of these things allow for music to be recorded and for music to sound like it never has before. These things allow for such bands and music to arise as you’ve never dreamed of hearing--and these things limit almost no constraints on a musician who is tried for money. The computer--while on the surface, scarring the musical scene, has--indeed, probably is--the one thing that has saved it. We have computers to thank for the production of so many unique ideas and so many new musical motifs and traits it’s impossible to count. We have modern musicians to think for their broad-mindedness and ability to think up the things they make these machines do. We have technology to think for the Progress in Music that exists under the Decline of music. Music--in my opinion, has reached a point that is no longer the Paradox of the 70s-90s--one step forward and two back. No, we’ve finally reached an age unhindered by restraints, where anything you can conceive in sound is possible, and where artistry is at its largest. We have reached the modern age of music, and it is just now beginning.
    My last stand in the defense of modern music exists in the form that we’ve just begun. Listen to the music of the Seventies and you’ll hear a relative unifying sound that goes with almost everything of the age. Now, go listen to a Fantomas album. Next up is Kayo Dot. Take a listen to Porcupine Tree. Then The Mars Volta. Listen to a 65 Days of Static album. Go take a peek at the new Secret Chiefs 3 album. It’s hardly ever the same. This variation is a huge strength of our current musical era. Essentially, anything you’d ever want to hear is there somewhere--you just have to find it.
So, taking that idea and expanding upon it, it’s easy for me to defend modern music--almost too easy. While the classics have been written and cast in stone, music is evolving once you look deep enough to notice. We’ve reached an era where anything can happen in this art, as long as there are willing musicians, there is a way to create the music they want to hear, and consequently we--as the audience, can hear anything we want to hear. It’s there, under the top shelf. If we look, we’ll find. Music is at it’s Second Golden Age--and one, I think that will be everlasting.          
    
    

Edited by king volta - January 23 2007 at 16:12
I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
Back to Top
laplace View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 19:33
a lot of people both on forums and just generally everywhere always feel the need to attack the things they dislike instead of just stating that they don't like them. there's no real reason to defend modern music because it's not under attack from anyone thinking rationally.

but it's a nice rant
Back to Top
TheProgtologist View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 19:42
Being a lover of modern prog music I really agree with what KV wrote.Very nicely put,but I see no need to defend it right now because no one has really attacked it.
    

Edited by TheProgtologist - January 22 2007 at 20:01


Back to Top
Figglesnout View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 19:57
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Being a lover of modern prog music I really agree qith what KV wrote.Very nicely put,but I see no need to defend it right now because no one has really attacked it.

    Not here it isn't--but everywhere I go, my friends, my peers, my father...you name. They attack modern music, and it just got to me. So I wrote that for my school paper...
I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17433
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 20:05
    I agree with the post almost in its totality, so no argument here. The only thing I don't agree is that post-rock is that great, but that's more of a subjective point of view. In music I tend to be old fashioned (and OLD meaning my first taste of music since I was a child was classical music) so I like my music melodic, thematic, ever-changing, dazzling me with thematic work rather than by noise and "avant-garde-ness". But then that is purely subjective. Objectively, I can't argue about the validity of the post, and I actually applaud the thought put into it. I wouldn't say computer ruined music, (as you also say it but later on the post), it's computer mixed with consumism mixed with let's-produce-more-garbage-quickly-so-it-can-be-sold-quicker. Computers, were they used with an artistic objective in mind (as many do), could do WONDERS for new music. It's the same in motion pictures: computers could be used to make wonders; instead, hollywood chooses to use them to turn work that years ago took months to accomplish into a 20 hour effort, and to create countless explosions, effects with noreason, to CHEAPEN the art. The same with music. The cheaper it is (artistically I mean, but curiously, also financially), the more profitable it is, because more of our "money-but-not-knowledge-hungry" people will be capable of getting it.
Back to Top
Man Overboard View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3775
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 20:05
Paragraphs would serve you well.

Going back to decipher it.
Back to Top
Figglesnout View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 20:08
Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Paragraphs would serve you well.

Going back to decipher it.

in the typed version the last few errors are fixed and there are many paragraphs...when i copied and paste they didn't translate them. If I'd known i would've inserted them. I'll go edit it now.
    
I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
Back to Top
Reverie View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 14 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 626
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 20:22
I completely agree that modern music is fantastic and free and wonderful. However, i don't think the impact of the late 60s/early 70s rock groups should be played down. If it weren't for many of those groups we may not yet have the diversity that we do. So while, yes, rock music today is just as free from restraints, perhaps even moreso than those old prog groups, said groups have made more of an impact on music than these modern groups. I'm not saying they are better or worse, i'm just saying their impact can't be equalled today.

I also agree that the computer has had nothing to do with degredation of musical quality. Bad music has always been present if you ask me. I like much popular 70s music as much as i like todays popular music - not very much! Heck, even much antique classical music bores me to tears and gives me that same disgusted feeling that modern pop does. Computers are just another tool. Many kratrock fans, for example, don't seem to have a problem with the tape effects bands like Faust used in their music. All computers do is make stuff like that easier, and indeed expand upon those ideas.
Back to Top
Figglesnout View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 20:27
Originally posted by Reverie Reverie wrote:

I completely agree that modern music is fantastic and free and wonderful. However, i don't think the impact of the late 60s/early 70s rock groups should be played down. If it weren't for many of those groups we may not yet have the diversity that we do. So while, yes, rock music today is just as free from restraints, perhaps even moreso than those old prog groups, said groups have made more of an impact on music than these modern groups. I'm not saying they are better or worse, i'm just saying their impact can't be equalled today.

I also agree that the computer has had nothing to do with degredation of musical quality. Bad music has always been present if you ask me. I like much popular 70s music as much as i like todays popular music - not very much! Heck, even much antique classical music bores me to tears and gives me that same disgusted feeling that modern pop does. Computers are just another tool. Many kratrock fans, for example, don't seem to have a problem with the tape effects bands like Faust used in their music. All computers do is make stuff like that easier, and indeed expand upon those ideas.


i wasn't trying to put down the seventies bands...i'm sorry i came across that way, i was just tryign to glorify modern music in comparrison to 70s music and etc. Like I said, I LOVE the "ancient" bands, and I adore classical music...I dunno. I just felt modern music needed a boost. Especially where I Come from.
    
I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 21:29
I do agree with the gist of the defense. For those who feel that Prog's heyday was the late 60s & early 70s, with nothing new or interesting since, please remember that it was also the "in thing" at the time. SO record companies searched for the next Yes or King Crimson & musical groups were inspired by the giants of the time to try their hand. Yes, believe it or not, this so-called serious music was a big trend in those days. Then the next trend(s) came in, for example, southern California songwriter centered music, and while the Prog scene still produced quality music, the record industry went on to follow the fad of the day, as they had with Prog & early 70s hard rock/metal, as they would with New Wave, Hair Metal, AOR, Grunge, Pop Punk, Boy Bands as so on. This will scare or nauseate some of you, but there are some 80s Hair bands doing pretty good business these days. But there is not much of a scene for new bands putting out music of that style. In comparioson,and a  consolation, it must be said that the modern Prog scene is more varied than other scenes  in that there are many new groups from  a number of different countries producing  Prog masterpieces, which is something that can't be said about Hair Metal or Pop Punk (in all of its' subgenres). Not bad for a type of music that was once relegated to dinosaur status. 

Edited by pantacruelgruel - January 22 2007 at 21:32
Back to Top
endlessepic View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 22:01
Very well written,
One thing that may be a bit differant then other peoples experience is that I am a young kid who wouldnt have gotten into Yes and Genesis and others if not for the computer. So the computer is helping those old bands by being exposed through this website, they are makin money off of me by the internet!
I got into prog by means of Emerson Lake and Palmer, and by help of this website and the rest of the internet, have found much more!
Back to Top
Camel_APPeal View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 22 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 428
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 22:21

^^

That's right; I think the "computers destroyed music" argument can't be solid at all. Computers and internet are there; you can make good use or bad use of them. Tools are not to blame... blame the users if they make bad use of them!

"After all, it's music what we're talking about here, so there's no best or worst; just what you like and what you don't"
Back to Top
Figglesnout View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 22:29
Originally posted by Camel_APPeal Camel_APPeal wrote:

^^


That's right; I think the "computers destroyed music" argument can't be solid at all. Computers and internet are there; you can make good use or bad use of them. Tools are not to blame... blame the users if they make bad use of them!

    
I defended the computer in the music industry...it's capable of bring good and bad, but i support its use as a form of creative output and self-promotion. I think it's helped in inventing musical styles also.
I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
Back to Top
Camel_APPeal View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 22 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 428
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 22:53
Originally posted by king volta king volta wrote:

Originally posted by Camel_APPeal Camel_APPeal wrote:

^^


That's right; I think the "computers destroyed music" argument can't be solid at all. Computers and internet are there; you can make good use or bad use of them. Tools are not to blame... blame the users if they make bad use of them!

    
I defended the computer in the music industry...it's capable of bring good and bad, but i support its use as a form of creative output and self-promotion. I think it's helped in inventing musical styles also.
 
Yes, and I was supporting your argument Big smile 

"After all, it's music what we're talking about here, so there's no best or worst; just what you like and what you don't"
Back to Top
Figglesnout View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 23:00
Originally posted by Camel_APPeal Camel_APPeal wrote:

Originally posted by king volta king volta wrote:

Originally posted by Camel_APPeal Camel_APPeal wrote:


^^


That's right; I think the "computers destroyed music" argument can't be solid at all. Computers and internet are there; you can make good use or bad use of them. Tools are not to blame... blame the users if they make bad use of them!
      I defended the computer in the music industry...it's capable of bring good and bad, but i support its use as a form of creative output and self-promotion. I think it's helped in inventing musical styles also.

 

Yes, and I was supporting your argument [IMG]height=17 alt="Big smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> 


oh okay i wasn't neccesarily arguing either. It's all opinion ya know. I just couldn't tell with the arrows haha. Sorry man.
    
I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
Back to Top
Reverie View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 14 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 626
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 23:14
Originally posted by king volta king volta wrote:

Originally posted by Reverie Reverie wrote:

I completely agree that modern music is fantastic and free and wonderful. However, i don't think the impact of the late 60s/early 70s rock groups should be played down. If it weren't for many of those groups we may not yet have the diversity that we do. So while, yes, rock music today is just as free from restraints, perhaps even moreso than those old prog groups, said groups have made more of an impact on music than these modern groups. I'm not saying they are better or worse, i'm just saying their impact can't be equalled today.

I also agree that the computer has had nothing to do with degredation of musical quality. Bad music has always been present if you ask me. I like much popular 70s music as much as i like todays popular music - not very much! Heck, even much antique classical music bores me to tears and gives me that same disgusted feeling that modern pop does. Computers are just another tool. Many kratrock fans, for example, don't seem to have a problem with the tape effects bands like Faust used in their music. All computers do is make stuff like that easier, and indeed expand upon those ideas.


i wasn't trying to put down the seventies bands...i'm sorry i came across that way, i was just tryign to glorify modern music in comparrison to 70s music and etc. Like I said, I LOVE the "ancient" bands, and I adore classical music...I dunno. I just felt modern music needed a boost. Especially where I Come from.
    

Oh no, i know you weren't debasing the 70s bands or anything, i just wanted to make sure it was clear that those bands have had a bigger impact than modern prog bands could have. Again, i'm not saying the old bands are better or worse than the new bands
Back to Top
The Bard View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: January 19 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2007 at 23:18
Modern Music is crazy today.  At my school all the kids are getting into some crappy stuff.  I, however, try to stay with modern music that isn't.  crappy that is.  Mickey(a.k.a. the wizard) influences the bands I listen to more than anyone.  He's about the only peer I listen to concerning modern bands.
 
With everything there is good and bad.  With love there is pain.  With The Mars Volta there is...ugh...Fall Out Boy...NukeCry
Let the music be your master.
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 12501
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2007 at 03:10
Modern music has thrown up some great bands..see my avatar for one great example.But the seventies had bands writing and performing classic music that will never go away.It was a special time for music and thats a fact.British rock bands stormed the world and left a lasting legacy.Nowadays music is more cosmopolitan and its harder to find what you want...but its there for sure.Thats why sites like this are so invaluable!
Back to Top
OpethGuitarist View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2007 at 03:14
very nice read, kudos
back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
Back to Top
fuxi View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2405
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2007 at 04:10
Originally posted by king volta king volta wrote:

We have reached the modern age of music, and it is just now beginning.


Well no, not exactly.
We've been in 'the modern age of music' for at least 400 years. In 1607 Monteverdi wrote his ORFEO (which is close in spirit to certain prog concept albums!) and since then there's been revolution upon revolution.

You're right in pointing out that (some) contemporary rock bands seem to have regained the spirit of adventure which characterised the 1970s. But you're in danger of generalising.

First of all, the 1970s were not the only 'golden age' of popular music. The 1960s produced just as much good music (even if it wasn't prog) and the 1950s were no laughing matter, either.

Secondly, you seem to think you're analysing 'Modern Music' in general. Well, you may call The Mars Volta or Porcupine Tree 'post-rock' as much as you like, but they're still only rock bands to me, i.e. bands operating with a 'rock music mentality' (albeit an experimental one) and aimed at a rock audience (even if it's an audience with a taste for adventure).

Don't forget that there are OTHER forces out there, e.g. superb jazz soloists such as Keith Jarrett and Tomasz Stanko, 'World Music' performers such as the Portuguese fado singer Cristina Branco, and symphonic composers such as John Adams and Qigang Chen. If you ignore people like these, you just can't pretend you're discussing 'Modern Music'.

P.S. Computers do not have an 'affect' on people. It's 'effects' you're after.
    

Edited by fuxi - January 23 2007 at 04:12
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.