Fish Marillion vs Hogarts Marillion - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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toolis

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Topic: Fish Marillion vs Hogarts Marillion
Posted: March 20 2007 at 11:22

Angeldust wrote:

Accept them both.that's enough !

agreed.. i think that both Marillion eras are a phenomenon in the history of music... both worlds are great and i can't think of any other band losing such an essential member and still going on that great!!!

maybe we should give more credit to the rest of the band... after all, they always were the 'spine' of the group...

-music is like pornography...

sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...

-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...

E-Dub

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Posted: March 20 2007 at 08:54

StyLaZyn wrote:

E-Dub wrote:

StyLaZyn wrote:

<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600>Fish is one of the best singers of Prog in my book. His gutteral voice and angst driven lyrics fit Marillion's music to me. Hogart sounds to breathy and whiny....again, to me. They should have changed the band's name to Wimpillion.

Huh? No, let me rephrase that! Huh? Some posts warrant a LOL emoticon. This, however, is not one of them. E

<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600>Yeah, well, sorry. I thought it was funny. I guess you don't feel the new singer sounds Top 40?

Granted, some of Fish's solo stuff is lyricly wimpy and seems like an attempt at top 40 or adult contemporary (i.e. Gentleman's Excuse"), but his voice still has raw power.

Hogarth isn't exactly new. I mean, the guy has been with Marillion for some 17 years now.

Top 40? No, I don't hear it. I don't feel that either vocalist sounds particularly top 40. Just me, however.

E

Moogtron III View Drop Down

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Posted: March 20 2007 at 08:49

The Miracle wrote:

I prefer Fish but Hogath era has its moments as well.

My opinion as well

StyLaZyn

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Posted: March 20 2007 at 08:22

E-Dub wrote:

StyLaZyn wrote:

Fish is one of the best singers of Prog in my book. His gutteral voice and angst driven lyrics fit Marillion's music to me. Hogart sounds to breathy and whiny....again, to me. They should have changed the band's name to Wimpillion.

Huh? No, let me rephrase that! Huh?
Some posts warrant a LOL emoticon. This, however, is not one of them.
E

Yeah, well, sorry. I thought it was funny. I guess you don't feel the new singer sounds Top 40?

Granted, some of Fish's solo stuff is lyricly wimpy and seems like an attempt at top 40 or adult contemporary (i.e. Gentleman's Excuse"), but his voice still has raw power.

E-Dub

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Posted: March 19 2007 at 19:54

StyLaZyn wrote:

Fish is one of the best singers of Prog in my book. His gutteral voice and angst driven lyrics fit Marillion's music to me. Hogart sounds to breathy and whiny....again, to me. They should have changed the band's name to Wimpillion.

Huh? No, let me rephrase that! Huh?

Some posts warrant a LOL emoticon. This, however, is not one of them.

E

StyLaZyn

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Posted: March 19 2007 at 14:11

Mandrakeroot View Drop Down

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Posted: March 19 2007 at 13:55

http://gallery.mcneel.com/fullsize/fish2.jpg

Angeldust

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Posted: March 19 2007 at 13:52

Accept them both.that's enough !

Wilcey

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Posted: February 28 2007 at 04:43

hmmmmm, well having not idea who "Hogart" is (some relation to Hogarth perhaps?) I will abstain from voting.
Really, I don't see it as a competition, they are different. It's ok to be different, one doesn't need to be "better".
I know the old stuff better, and it holds a lot of "rights of passage" memories for me, so it's really hard to be objective. I find Hogarth's voice out of my comfort zone to listen to, but I think they have recently fouind their stride again and look forward to hearing the new album. But to me they are like two seperate bands, and two I don't feel comfortable comparing.

P-C

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Posted: February 28 2007 at 04:13

Frea, wrote:

I think the band has gotten to grow and display more mature playing under Hogarth, but a lot of the music had pure power behind Fish.

I've never liked that comment in relation to this topic. It implies that the band weren't maturing with Fish and that Fish hasn'tmatured since leaving Marillion, both of which certainly aren't true.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: February 28 2007 at 02:12

The T wrote:

In this ocassion I'd have tom disagree with Ivan too..... Pointer similar to Collins?

Well, maybe the style is not worlds apart, but the quality of execution....now that's a different matter... one is a very competent drummer (some people actually have him as the best, though I disagree), the other is a bad, sloppy drummer who, in the only album he played for MArillion, was even worse, bordering on atrocity.

Of course I'm talking about styles.

A musician can influence another one with his style but he can't teach him his skills, that's a totally different issue.

Everybody agrees Starcastle are Yes clones, they play in the same style but the quality of both bands during their peak, is miles aways.

BTW: Pointer is not a top drummer, but was very decent IMO, I always read how people talk about some drummers that didn't succeed with famous bands like John Mayhew and Pointer, people use to be unfair with them, surely not in the level of their followers, but you don't have to be a virtuoso to be good enough.

But the similarities do exist. I can hear them as evident as I can see the sun in the mornings (I live in Florida so I can actually do it, unlike some europeans

).... For me, please respect my opinion Mr. Stonebeard (stoney?

), I do think Fish-era Mariilion, specially Script, are Genesis2.0... with differences like the guitar style, but even those I don't perceive them as being as great as others do...

I agree, Rothery is the main difference between both bands in terms of musical style approach, not clones but more than casual and small similarities.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 28 2007 at 02:16

Freak

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Posted: February 27 2007 at 22:09

I wussed out! I couldn't pick... At least not enough to influence the polls.

I'm an H-sympathizer, I think the guy is brilliant. Both band's produce(d) excellent material. Fish was an awesome singer and stage presence. So is H. I think the band has gotten to grow and display more mature playing under Hogarth, but a lot of the music had pure power behind Fish.

Whoever's singing, I'm happy!

The T

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Posted: February 27 2007 at 21:47

markosherrera wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

stonebeard wrote:

It bugs me when people say this. I've listened to a lot of both bands, and it becomes more apparent as time goes on that Fish-era had little sonically and songwritingly (I can't believe I just made up that word) to do with Gabriel Genesis other than Fish's voice sounds similar to Gabriel's until you hear it a lot. I can tell them apart like night and day now.

Well Stoney, I find a lot of similarities:

The keyboards of Kelly were clearly inspired in Tony Banks.
Fish tries to sound like Peter Gabriel, even when his voice is very particular.
Fish theatricalls are clearly inspired in Peter Gabriel's Genesis stage acts.
The narrative lyrics of Fish era have a lot of similarities with early Genesis.
Fish used to tell stories with and without relation with the songs before many tracks as Gabriel did.
Fish in an interview on one DVD I recently got says clearly that Genesis washis major influence, and that his favorite album was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

I believe there are a lot of Genesis influences in Marillion, not clones at all because mainly Rothery's guitar is absolutely and radically different to Steve's but in the rest, the influence is more than obvious even Trevawas and Pointer sounded very close to Rutherford and Collins is Script IMHO.

Iván

Pointer similar to Collins'????? listen endos,in the cage etc and after listen the first record of Marillion. after Mosley or Mosely enter and make a good job.

In this ocassion I'd have tom disagree with Ivan too..... Pointer similar to Collins?

But the similarities do exist. I can hear them as evident as I can see the sun in the mornings (I live in Florida so I can actually do it, unlike some europeans

).... For me, please respect my opinion Mr. Stonebeard (stoney?

), I do think Fish-era Mariilion, specially Script, are Genesis2.0... with differences like the guitar style, but even those I don't perceive them as being as great as others do...

markosherrera View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2007 at 19:36

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Well Stoney, I find a lot of similarities:

The keyboards of Kelly were clearly inspired in Tony Banks.
Fish tries to sound like Peter Gabriel, even when his voice is very particular.
Fish theatricalls are clearly inspired in Peter Gabriel's Genesis stage acts.
The narrative lyrics of Fish era have a lot of similarities with early Genesis.
Fish used to tell stories with and without relation with the songs before many tracks as Gabriel did.
Fish in an interview on one DVD I recently got says clearly that Genesis washis major influence, and that his favorite album was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

Iván

Pointer similar to Collins'????? listen endos,in the cage etc and after listen the first record of Marillion. after Mosley or Mosely enter and make a good job.

Edited by markosherrera - February 27 2007 at 19:36

markosherrera View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2007 at 19:31

Fish like a singer,but I prefer Marillion than Fish solo

Spacemac

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Posted: February 26 2007 at 16:29

Both

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: February 26 2007 at 11:41

Forgotten Son wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Fish in an interview on one DVD I recently got says clearly that Genesis washis major influence, and that his favorite album was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

Really. On all the interviews I've seen or read with him he seems to mention Yes far more than Genesis. According to an interview with Classic Rock magazine, his 5 favourite British albums are:

1. Dark Side of the Moon
2. The Yes Album
3. Moondance
4. Led Zeppelin IV
5. Selling England by the Pound

In the DVD I got he gives an interview in his house and even shows his albums to a British interviewer, the first one he presents is The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, he even says it's the first concert he ever went to and mentions them as his greatest influence.

It's a legal Brazilian edition called Marillion "The Fish Years". I don't know how they manage to get stuff released nowhere else.

Iván

Yito

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Posted: February 26 2007 at 11:15

Marillion saves the 80's with Fish, but the era of Hogarth is more complex and mature.in vocal details,maybe H don't write lyrics like Fish,but Hogarth is much,much,MUCH better singer than Fish.

Psalm 96
1 Sing to the LORD a new song;
sing to the LORD, all the earth.

bhikkhu

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Posted: February 26 2007 at 09:01

E-Dub wrote:

bhikkhu wrote:

stonebeard wrote:

E-Dub wrote:

And with all due respect, Fish hasn't come close to producing a masterpiece since leaving Marillion.

Oh I don't think so. He's come close. Raingods with Zippos is great, probably 4 stars. Vigil is next. Great tracks on there; probably about a 3.5 or 4. Sunsets on Empire and Field of Crows were disappointing; maybe 2.5 or 3.

I actually like all of those albums. Don't underestimate "Crows," there is some good stuff there. I think the problem is that they were more rock oriented, and less complex. Still quality music though. "Vigil" is great, but "Raingods" is my favorite.

I would play any of those albums before an H album. Heck, I would play "Fellini Days" or "Suits" first.

Suit yourself, Bhikkhu. What you hear and what I hear are two different things. It's probably best that we not talk about it in this particular thread, however.

E

That's the whole point my friend. I will give "Brave" its credit. It is a fine album. I would just rather listen Fish. All personal preference.

Besides, you have recently found the wonder of Genesis. You know good music when you hear it.

a.k.a. H.T.

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Forgotten Son View Drop Down

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Posted: February 26 2007 at 04:13

I've come to love both equally. My favourite albums are as follows:

1. Misplaced Childhood
2. Clutching at Straws
3. Marbles
4. Script for a Jester's Tear
5. Brave

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The keyboards of Kelly were clearly inspired in Tony Banks.

I hear more Pete Bardens in Kelly than I do Banks.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Fish tries to sound like Peter Gabriel, even when his voice is very particular.

Maybe, in the very early days of Marillion. As noted many times before there's a lot more Hammill influence in Fish's vocals, lyrics too for that matter.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Fish theatricalls are clearly inspired in Peter Gabriel's Genesis stage acts.

Probably the biggest similarity there is

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The narrative lyrics of Fish era have a lot of similarities with early Genesis.

I strongly disagree with that

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Fish used to tell stories with and without relation with the songs before many tracks as Gabriel did.

That's a bit of a stretch.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Fish in an interview on one DVD I recently got says clearly that Genesis washis major influence, and that his favorite album was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

Poll Question: Wich do you prefer?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Fish Marillion	38	[62.30%]
Hogarts Marillion	14	[22.95%]
Both were the same	9	[14.75%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted