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Cheesecakemouse View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Doors LA Woman grossly overrated
    Posted: March 20 2007 at 16:59
I bought LA Women this record a couple of  days ago on an impulse when I saw it at a cheap price. Boy was I dissappointed with it when I gave it a listen last night, to me the whole album is flat, firstly Jim Morrison just doesn't seem to care about the audience ( I know he was deterioating at this point), secoundly this album is so behind with what had as was happening musically this album was made in 1971 but it sounded more like 1967.
Musically speaking it sounded like it had not paid attention to the innovations of the the past by such albums as theBeatles album Abbey Road, Jimmy Hendrix Electric Ladyland, Miles Davis Bitches Brew. Nor does it appear were the musicians aware of the innovations that occured in 1971, that year albums Can's Tago Mago, the Yes Album, Van derr Graaf Generator H to He, these albums are light years ahead of LA Woman. To me the album falls completely flat, it sounds like it came out just after the release of the song 'Wild Thing' (by the troggs if i'm correct).
In My opinion the only reason people bother with the Doors is firstly Jim Morrison was good looking, lived the wild rock n' roll lifestyle and died young. According to the rulwes of pop culture matrydom if you look good, live hard and die young you are an immortal legend. Also to reinforce that was Oliver Stone's movie, which resulted in Morrison's sanctification to a devine musical authority, and the resulting pop culture magazines eg the Rolling Stone Magazine.
So in the end I think LA Woman was a dud, it was a Turkey when it was released and still is a Turkey today. But because of Morrison's sainthood decleared by the pop culture authrities many people do not question the quality (or lack of) on this album.
After all Saint Morrison is on posters and tee shirts at your local music store.
In my opinion if Jim Morrison was still alive today , the Doors would not have the high status today, and Jim Morrison like Tom Jones wuold be now singing in Las Vegas and considered at the same level as Tom Jone, not the rock 'God' who died young.
As a result I give this LA Woman 2 stars.
Thankyou for your time.Smile



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2007 at 20:06
Haha, yes, I'm afraid I totally agree. Although it should be said that the first two albums (maybe three) were not bad at all and brought forth a unique approach to music at that time, even beyond social/cultural circumstances. That's what should matter to music listeners, regardless of what is retained in the collective memory of the mainstream public fourty years later. Usually, those who keep their Morrison posters hanging on their walls couldn't even tell if those albums were released in '67 or '87 just by listening to them. A similar argument to yours could be constructed for Cobain, but I'd rather not get into that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2007 at 22:25
I wouldn't say overrated, I would say is not as good as many people say. (isn't it the same? Confused).... I mean, I think is way better than Morrison Hotel and The Soft Parade (which, outside of the title track, is almost in the atrocity level), but nowhwre near The Doors or Strange Days or the (in this case underrated, for me) Waiting for The Sun. It's true that Morrison's voice was a disaster at this point in terms of stability, but he had a certain tone to it that made the voice unique, even more than what it was. The music is decent (The title track, L'A America, Love her Madly) but the album would be ultimately saved weven without those songs because it contains one of the band's greatest gem: Riders on the Storm... that song is a testament to the fact that, with very little, you can do so much...magnificent. So I'd say no to the question.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2007 at 22:26
Says the person who gave Revolver 2 stars........
 
I disagree. It's great fun and a magnificent blues rock album.Not a masterpiece like their first two but still great.


Edited by The Wizard - March 20 2007 at 22:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2007 at 22:52
It's an awesome album, stuffed full of great tunes.  I love it.  Not remotely proggy though, mostly blues-rock, with a touch of jazz on Riders.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2007 at 22:55
Listen to it some more times... and then in a month , you will say that is a good album...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2007 at 23:42
L.A. Woman is one of The Doors finest moments.
This album marked the era were Morrison, humbled by public humiliation, now started to take the music seriously. Embracing the blues roots and shaking of the dying kaliedioscope of psychedelia, The Doors, hit their purest moment.
The raunchy (Detroitish) swinging of Changeling is not far from that of Soul Kitchen.
L.A Woman and Riders are unparalleled classics with beautiful dark and shadowy imagary. The musical composition is as mature as The Doors will ever reach.
Been Down So Long, Crawling King Snake and Cars Hiss By My Window, send us once again down the dark alley's through Morrison's mind. Check out Jim's harmonica solo on Cars...(without said instrument). Five to One comes to mind, with this tune. 
Hyacinth House, hints at a Doors that could be. Light, melodic and always quirky, a facet of Jim's side so little experienced.
The Wasp is the "hit" from this disc. Heavy riff and a fully listenable tune. Not a fav of mine, but the masses say different.
L' America has a Not to Touch the Earth feel, but not as good.
Love Her Madly is the "pop" tune on this album.
L.A. Woman by The Doors.
Get it.
And don't look back.
 
Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 01:50
LA Woman is a fine album.  I had to listen to it about 3 times before I really started to catch on to it.  I don't know why hate Soft Parade. That's a good one too.  Personally, I think the first album is a bit boring.

Anyways,  you shouldn't really judge by whatever else came out at the time.  Thats not really fair.  If you start doing that with one album you have to do it with all of them and then you'll be out of luck because a lot of things come out that do different things compared to whatever is a famous album or whatever. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 05:29
Love this LA Woman album!! Easily their best!! Their proggiest if you ask me.
 
Wasp is outstanding too.
 
 
Originally posted by BroSpence BroSpence wrote:

LA Woman is a fine album.  I had to listen to it about 3 times before I really started to catch on to it. 
 
I don't know why hate Soft Parade. That's a good one too.  Personally, I think the first album is a bit boring.

 
Soft Parade is unfortunately overloaded by strings and horns section. But the title track is pure dynamite. One of my favorite.
 
The debutr album is a bit over-rated, but still quite fine and Strange Days is good too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 09:12

I get the impression you dislike Jim Morrison more than LA Woman.

Jim was a legend before Stone's movie,and while he wasn't the greatest singer he was a brilliant lyricist and poet.

And if you know anything about Jim Morrison you would know he despised fame,and didn't really dig performing.If he was alive today he would be off by himself somewhere,reading and writing philosophy and poetry.He never would have stuck with music if he would have lived.



Edited by TheProgtologist - March 21 2007 at 09:13


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 09:16
Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

I bought LA Women this record a couple of  days ago on an impulse when I saw it at a cheap price. Boy was I dissappointed with it when I gave it a listen last night, to me the whole album is flat, firstly Jim Morrison just doesn't seem to care about the audience ( I know he was deterioating at this point), secoundly this album is so behind with what had as was happening musically this album was made in 1971 but it sounded more like 1967.
Musically speaking it sounded like it had not paid attention to the innovations of the the past by such albums as theBeatles album Abbey Road, Jimmy Hendrix Electric Ladyland, Miles Davis Bitches Brew. Nor does it appear were the musicians aware of the innovations that occured in 1971, that year albums Can's Tago Mago, the Yes Album, Van derr Graaf Generator H to He, these albums are light years ahead of LA Woman. To me the album falls completely flat, it sounds like it came out just after the release of the song 'Wild Thing' (by the troggs if i'm correct).
In My opinion the only reason people bother with the Doors is firstly Jim Morrison was good looking, lived the wild rock n' roll lifestyle and died young. According to the rulwes of pop culture matrydom if you look good, live hard and die young you are an immortal legend. Also to reinforce that was Oliver Stone's movie, which resulted in Morrison's sanctification to a devine musical authority, and the resulting pop culture magazines eg the Rolling Stone Magazine.
So in the end I think LA Woman was a dud, it was a Turkey when it was released and still is a Turkey today. But because of Morrison's sainthood decleared by the pop culture authrities many people do not question the quality (or lack of) on this album.
After all Saint Morrison is on posters and tee shirts at your local music store.
In my opinion if Jim Morrison was still alive today , the Doors would not have the high status today, and Jim Morrison like Tom Jones wuold be now singing in Las Vegas and considered at the same level as Tom Jone, not the rock 'God' who died young.
As a result I give this LA Woman 2 stars.
Thankyou for your time.Smile
 
    ....negativity came into the room.... Stop comparing obsessively. If you compare Beatles, VDGG, Can, Yes, Miles Davis and the others you've mentioned with  The Doors Confused it doesn't make much sense because their music is so different. I always take each album for what it has to offer. Therefore...


Edited by Cristi - March 21 2007 at 09:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 09:22
there's a valid point to be made that Jim sounded like hell, the effects of alcohol wrecked his voice.  I don't know about anyone else, but Jim Morrison WAS the Doors.  With his voice shot and the Lizard King personna dead.  The album just simply wasn't as good as the earlier albums. No negativity... Cheesecakemouse had a valid point.  It lacked something from the earlier albums, for me... that ^ was it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 09:45
Nope, LA Woman is an exceptional album, maybe The Doors best.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 12:26
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

he was a brilliant lyricist and poet.
 
No, he was not. He was a kid who had probably read some Rimbaud and most definitely some Blake and thought it would be cool to mumble something in a similar style as lyrics for his songs. He built up some kind of childish, incoherent imagery with lizards and stuff and he probably also thought shamans were cool or something, cause he kept bringing that up if I recall well. Like the Mercury Rev guys nicely put it in a song some time ago, "I'm alive! she cried - but I don't know what it means". He was not a poet, and I wouldn't call him an inspired lyricist either, although you might argue that some things sounded decent enough in the context of one song or another.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 12:54
Originally posted by Uroboros Uroboros wrote:

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

he was a brilliant lyricist and poet.
 
No, he was not. He was a kid who had probably read some Rimbaud and most definitely some Blake and thought it would be cool to mumble something in a similar style as lyrics for his songs. He built up some kind of childish, incoherent imagery with lizards and stuff and he probably also thought shamans were cool or something, cause he kept bringing that up if I recall well. Like the Mercury Rev guys nicely put it in a song some time ago, "I'm alive! she cried - but I don't know what it means". He was not a poet, and I wouldn't call him an inspired lyricist either, although you might argue that some things sounded decent enough in the context of one song or another.
 
"He was a kid who had probably read some Rimbaud and most definitely some Blake"
 
Do you know anything about the man?He was a voracious reader with a near genius level IQ,so don't insult his intelligence.
 
What you think of any of his work is all a matter of taste and opinon,isn't it?I like his poetry and his lyrics,and the imagery he used.
 
I'm a blue collar guy,I guess my tastes aren't as "refined" as yours.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 12:55
Ermm Hmmmm... I wonder if the whole "overrated" thing (at least in regard to older albums, like LA Woman) often breaks down along generational lines.
 
For those of us "of a certain age," we "were there" to experience the impact some of these ground-breaking, "important" albums and artists (ITCOTCK, SEBTP, Foxtrot, Brain Salad Surgery, Sgt. Pepper's, etc.) made at the time, and we may thus often treat the albums with a certain nostalgic reverence. (We rate with a view to the album's place in rock/prog history, and our own lengthy, happy, youthful history with it.)
 
With NO disrespect intended, I often find myself assuming, when I read some post saying how this or that widely-loved classic is "overrated"  (still hate that word because of what it implies about the album's fans), that the writer must be much younger than I, and just wasn't there to feel what we did when the music was fresh and new, and really stood out from the prevailing norm. (Thus, I tend to take such disparaging, counter to the majority statements with a HUGE "grain of salt.")
 
I also think,  when classic albums inevitably garner a lot of gushing praise, that new listeners may approach them with the unrealistic expectation of being "blown away" (you'll see that a lot in their subsequent reviews: "from all of the previous reviews, I was expecting to be blown away, but I wasn't), or of having some sort of revelatory, life-altering, quasi-religious experience.LOL
 
What do others think? Is there a generational, "you had to be there" kind of phenomenon at work in these cases? we see it time and again: 40-something reviewer gives top rating, teen reviewer knocks it down because 'it didn't blow me away."
 
Or is it just the innate cynicism of youth? Yes, I was a teen, and I have a teenage daughter, so I have some experience with the "everything sucks, especially what you like, Pops) mindset. (I'm not saying this is necessarily a factor here.)
 
Waddaya say?Ermm
 
(Just checked -- according to his profile, our Mr. Mouse is a youthful 26. He was born well after the Doors' groovy, far-out heyday.)


Edited by Peter Rideout - March 21 2007 at 14:40
Let the monkey drive.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 13:38
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by Uroboros Uroboros wrote:

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

he was a brilliant lyricist and poet.
 
No, he was not. He was a kid who had probably read some Rimbaud and most definitely some Blake and thought it would be cool to mumble something in a similar style as lyrics for his songs. He built up some kind of childish, incoherent imagery with lizards and stuff and he probably also thought shamans were cool or something, cause he kept bringing that up if I recall well. Like the Mercury Rev guys nicely put it in a song some time ago, "I'm alive! she cried - but I don't know what it means". He was not a poet, and I wouldn't call him an inspired lyricist either, although you might argue that some things sounded decent enough in the context of one song or another.
 
"He was a kid who had probably read some Rimbaud and most definitely some Blake"
 
Do you know anything about the man?He was a voracious reader with a near genius level IQ,so don't insult his intelligence.
 
What you think of any of his work is all a matter of taste and opinon,isn't it?I like his poetry and his lyrics,and the imagery he used.
 
I'm a blue collar guy,I guess my tastes aren't as "refined" as yours.
 
I'm not insulting his intelligence, I'm just trying to say that he wasn't the "poet" that many consider him. I think it's the result of all the media hype surrounding the band and everything about it, praising the guy to sometimes ridiculous extents. Yes, I happen to know a few things about poetry, and no literary critic in their right mind (and sober) would take his poetry seriously. Of course you can like the lyrics, of course they can offer you a compelling scene or a moving image, there's nothing wrong with that. But don't mistake it for serious poetry.
I don't know very much about him (although it's impossible not to know at least a few things when everybody talks about the same guy even after fourty years, as if little had happened in the meantime), so I may be wrong about his reading habits. But his influences are few and generally unfiltered/obvious. Reading does not make you a good writer (not even a good reader for that matter), and neither does a high IQ, so your argument doesn't hold.
Please don't take any of this as an offense; I am simply tired of people making icons out of certain characters for the most inappropriate reasons and on no reasonable grounds. Of course there is more to these things for the people who directly experienced them (like Peter said), but even they should be able to judge objectively after a while. Wink 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 13:51
L.A. Woman was a definate return to form after the very below par, Soft Parade and the O.K.-ish Morrison Hotel.
'Hyacinth House' is one of my favourite Door's tracks and 'Texas Radio...' is inspired. All this goes without saying how atmospheric 'Riders on the Storm' is. Manzarek was showing some good jazz/blues chops on this album and his use of the Fender Rhodes piano is beautiful.The use of a 'real' bass player throughout the album also helped beef-up the sound.
The album is unique in the Door's canon with regard to not only the whole atmosphere of the album, a sense of unrest,sleazyness and dark forboding(end of the 60's), but the production is better than anything that they had previously done.

Edited by Man Erg - March 21 2007 at 13:57

Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 13:57
Originally posted by Uroboros Uroboros wrote:

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by Uroboros Uroboros wrote:

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

he was a brilliant lyricist and poet.
 
No, he was not. He was a kid who had probably read some Rimbaud and most definitely some Blake and thought it would be cool to mumble something in a similar style as lyrics for his songs. He built up some kind of childish, incoherent imagery with lizards and stuff and he probably also thought shamans were cool or something, cause he kept bringing that up if I recall well. Like the Mercury Rev guys nicely put it in a song some time ago, "I'm alive! she cried - but I don't know what it means". He was not a poet, and I wouldn't call him an inspired lyricist either, although you might argue that some things sounded decent enough in the context of one song or another.
 
"He was a kid who had probably read some Rimbaud and most definitely some Blake"
 
Do you know anything about the man?He was a voracious reader with a near genius level IQ,so don't insult his intelligence.
 
What you think of any of his work is all a matter of taste and opinon,isn't it?I like his poetry and his lyrics,and the imagery he used.
 
I'm a blue collar guy,I guess my tastes aren't as "refined" as yours.
 
I'm not insulting his intelligence, I'm just trying to say that he wasn't the "poet" that many consider him. I think it's the result of all the media hype surrounding the band and everything about it, praising the guy to sometimes ridiculous extents. Yes, I happen to know a few things about poetry, and no literary critic in their right mind (and sober) would take his poetry seriously. Of course you can like the lyrics, of course they can offer you a compelling scene or a moving image, there's nothing wrong with that. But don't mistake it for serious poetry.
I don't know very much about him (although it's impossible not to know at least a few things when everybody talks about the same guy even after fourty years, as if little had happened in the meantime), so I may be wrong about his reading habits. But his influences are few and generally unfiltered/obvious. Reading does not make you a good writer (not even a good reader for that matter), and neither does a high IQ, so your argument doesn't hold.
Please don't take any of this as an offense; I am simply tired of people making icons out of certain characters for the most inappropriate reasons and on no reasonable grounds. Of course there is more to these things for the people who directly experienced them (like Peter said), but even they should be able to judge objectively after a while. Wink 


So you are basically saying that The Doors are a bad band because Ray Manzarek made sure Jim was in his band because of Jim's poetry and thats wh THe Doors started - becasue of Jim's poetry. Jim quoted part of a poem he wrote (which later became Moonlight Drive I think) and Ray was amazed. And have you read his lyrics? Those are great poetry. And he kept on bringing up shamans and native Americans and stuff because events he had a traumatic event in his childhood (He saw a car crash that involved a truck with a bunch of Native Americans, who that died - "Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding") And the lizards have to do with the few acid trips he had (I think - its what is put in the few biographies I've read)


Edited by progismylife - March 21 2007 at 13:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 14:24
Originally posted by progismylife progismylife wrote:

So you are basically saying that The Doors are a bad band because Ray Manzarek made sure Jim was in his band because of Jim's poetry and thats wh THe Doors started - becasue of Jim's poetry. Jim quoted part of a poem he wrote (which later became Moonlight Drive I think) and Ray was amazed. And have you read his lyrics? Those are great poetry. And he kept on bringing up shamans and native Americans and stuff because events he had a traumatic event in his childhood (He saw a car crash that involved a truck with a bunch of Native Americans, who that died - "Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding") And the lizards have to do with the few acid trips he had (I think - its what is put in the few biographies I've read)
 
Yes, Ray Manzarek's literary taste is most definitely a warranty for great poetry. Stern%20Smile
Of course I know the lyrics, I'm not talking about things I'm not familiar with. There is the occasional nice metaphor, of course (after all, the guy was trying), but there is nothing truly personal in there, he didn't have a poetic voice of his own. And, besides that, writing symbolism in the 1960's wasn't exactly keeping in time with the progress of literature.
Actually, you know, if you want to think he wrote great stuff, go ahead - who am I to try to make you think differently? Smile
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