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Direct Link To This Post Topic: the peak year of a musician
    Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:37
everybody reaches a performance peak in his life.
some are hard to find when, but others are easy.
which musician comes to your mind, what instrument and what year?
 
phil collins - drums - 1976
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:45
This somehow reminds me of a brilliant verse that I can't get out of my head: "The memories of a man in his old age/Are the deeds of a man in his prime"...
 
I won't name some artists, but I'll throw this observation: doesn't it seem interesting to you how in rock music the creativity peak is at a much younger age than in other genres that are more academic? I mean, in classical music the older/more mature you get, the better your works are (of course taking account of the several notable exceptions); on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:46
bill bruford - drums - 1974
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 02:19
Frank Zappa (guitar and compostionally IMO) - 1972-1975
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 02:48
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

This somehow reminds me of a brilliant verse that I can't get out of my head: "The memories of a man in his old age/Are the deeds of a man in his prime"...
 
I won't name some artists, but I'll throw this observation: doesn't it seem interesting to you how in rock music the creativity peak is at a much younger age than in other genres that are more academic? I mean, in classical music the older/more mature you get, the better your works are (of course taking account of the several notable exceptions); on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.
 
That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.
 
Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.
 
*from generalisms "R" Us... Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:07
Originally posted by SirPsycho388 SirPsycho388 wrote:

bill bruford - drums - 1974


'74? Maybe! But he definitely peaked again in 2001, with THE SOUND OF SURPRISE, followed by the amazing live album FOOTLOOSE AND FANCY FREE!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:28
for me, jazz muscians get better with time all the way until they die (or quit/switch styles)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:48
I'm no musician, so its just based on tastes and instinct:

- Simon House / violin - 70 (High Tide)
- Teddy Lasry / flute (sax) - 70 (Magma)
- Jaki Liebezeit / drums - 72 (Can)
- Didier Malherbe / saxes, flute - 74 (Gong)
- Pierre Moerlen / drums, percussion - 74 (Gong)
- Michi Dei Rossi / drums, percussion - 74 (Le Orme)
- Giulio Capiozzo / drums, percussion -  74 (Area)
- Patrick Gauthier / keyboards - 78 (Weidorje/Heldon)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:53
Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:04

^ ^ ^ i mentioned Zappa, so i guess ill explain

in the 60's, Zappa was doing extremely experimental things with the original Mothers' lineups. in '69 Zappa began fully realizing his interest in melding jazz and rock (waaayyy before most jazz-rock classic bands and artists even thought about it, except maybe Miles Davis) and recorded Hot Rats, one of his most popular and celebrated works. pretty much from there he did a lot of jazz-rock/fusion mixed with rock, classical, and funk. in 72 he recorded Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo, which are fusion classics and praised on this site. As a guitarist he was developing into a monster and his improvs were so unique. He then formed the next installment of the Mothers which had great guys like George Duke, Napoleon Murphy Brock and Ruth Underwood (who went back as far as some of the early Mothers' albums like Uncle Meat) the albums that came out between 72 and 75/76 are among his freshest and exquisite albums he ever released, some being some of the greatest jazz-rock albums (and he came from the rock/avant-guarde side of music)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:11
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting.


You're right, but I don't know what to write. Except that the albums they contributed on those specific years contains my favorite playing by all of them. I feel that its their peaks, but don' t really have the language to tell you why.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:15
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.

 

That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.

 

Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.

 

*from generalisms "R" Us... Wink



I've heard it say that because the hands and hand/brain coordination is better in one's 20s, that's why so many great players peak young.. but this wouldn't explain people like Stephane Grappelli or Allan Holdsworth, so I'm not sure.





Edited by Atavachron - May 15 2007 at 05:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:20
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:



Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting.


Well, as far as Bruford is concerned: the things he does on those 2001 albums are just as exciting as anything he did with Yes, Crimso or his own electric band. Perhaps even more so! I guess people are absolutely right when they point out that musicians get better with age. (But with too many rockers, the problem is there's too little to develop. Once they've given all they've got, in maybe four or five essential albums, there's nothing left to say...)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:33
David Gilmour - Guitar - 1975
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:47

as a player, Mark Zonder blew my mind with A Pleasant Shade Of Gray (1997).. just watch the DVD and you'll understand...

also, Roger Waters reached the top twice, with The Wall (1979) and Amused To Death (1994)..
The Wall cause: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=76799 and Amused.. cause it is the best anti-war concept ever...

Edited by toolis - May 15 2007 at 06:03
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sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 06:04
Steve Hackett......now
Bill Bruford.........now
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 06:12
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Steve Hackett......now
Bill Bruford.........now

 


NOW you're talking!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:00
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.

 

That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.

 

Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.

 

*from generalisms "R" Us... Wink



I've heard it say that because the hands and hand/brain coordination is better in one's 20s, that's why so many great players peak young.. but this wouldn't explain people like Stephane Grappelli or Allan Holdsworth, so I'm not sure.



 
Without doing any particular research, it would make sense that maybe left-brain (or whichever side is the creative one) to physical activity connectors respond more quickly when young - but without right-brain (or the logical centre), it's going to dry up pretty quickly once the limits have been reached.
 
If you train the logical centre to think rationally and learn the rules, then, once you've nailed the hand/brain co-ordination bit, it only gets better as the rules begin to sink in.
 
At least, that's my take on it - I'm older than 20, and did a lot of studying from age 4 upwards - although mainly not on the guitar - and my guitar playing has definitely not reached its peak, as I find I'm still learning new things all the time because my creative drive is probably stronger than it was back then, and I'm driven to try new things all the time.
 
It certainly holds true when you consider Grappelli, with his rigourous training - and Holdsworth also received training from his father - so there's evidence to suggest that my theory holds some water - and when you consider that Mozart was trained by his father at the age of 4, and was both writing and performing well before he hit double figures, this side of the equation seems proven.
 
It's the other side that's more interesting - untrained rock musicians who remain at their prime.
 
I can't think of many...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:18
Niccolò - Guitar 2027 (he's my nephew, you'll see!) Big%20smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:39

My proposition:

Bryan Ferry (hmm, rare mentioned hereUnhappy) - first half of '80's - creativity: Avalon, Boys And Girls.
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