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debrewguy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 14:12
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Obama and McCain Tax Proposals

According to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain are both proposing tax plans that would result in cuts for most American families. Obama's plan gives the biggest cuts to those who make the least, while McCain would give the largest cuts to the very wealthy. For the approximately 147,000 families that make up the top 0.1 percent of the income scale, the difference between the two plans is stark. While McCain offers a $269,364 tax cut, Obama would raise their taxes, on average, by $701,885 - a difference of nearly $1 million.

This is not to comment on the merits or drawbacks of either plan...
 
The top 1% pays nearly 40% of personal income tax. Let's assume the total revenues from personal income tax is $2B (the real number must be lower). So the rich chip in $800B. If Obama raises their tax bracket by 10% he will rake in $80B more. Assume he'll leave the remaining tax brackets alone, no decrease, no increase. Also if he withdraws from Iraq, we'll save another $400B (today's budget deficit).
 
A simple question for you: where is he going to get the money for his proposed $400B to $500B healthcare plan?


I wonder if he (the HMOs, big Pharma, and those who profit from them will kill him first) could institute a single payor system, simply tell people that their current health premiums that they pay to private companies will be put towards a universal system.
Maybe Slartibartfast can find us a chart as to what America pays for healthcare per capita or as a percentage of GDP ( some sort of relevant measure) versus other rich capitalist countries.
Or, if you can be botherd, check out the PBS.org site or google T R Reid, a journalist who did such a study , then ask yourself how Americans can pay more and get less.

P.S. the documentary does not hide the failings of the other countries' systems. A final example is how Switzerland's political leaders are trying to figure out how to get away with increasing health care spending from 6% to 8% of national GDP without angering their voters. In the end, some "sentient" leaders are saying "how about we just tell people of the choices to be made" ?
Compare that to the U.S. where the %is 20 of GDP. Oh wait, at least there's no governement bureaucracy to waste money ???
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 14:23
For 2007 the US spent $2.3 trillion on healthcare, 16% of GDP.

Both Obama and McCain don't seem to have any clear path to cost containment.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 16:08
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

For 2007 the US spent $2.3 trillion on healthcare, 16% of GDP.

Both Obama and McCain don't seem to have any clear path to cost containment.
Sure they do Pat.  Tax the rich.  Or tax the poor.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 20:25
Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

For 2007 the US spent $2.3 trillion on healthcare, 16% of GDP.

Both Obama and McCain don't seem to have any clear path to cost containment.
Sure they do Pat.  Tax the rich.  Or tax the poor.Wink



For some reason the belief, contrary to the reality in the countries that have universal health care, is that private cost less than public. Japan, Germany, the U.K., France, Switzerland, and Canada, all have a lower % of GDP spent on health care. Somehow, the profit motive is thought to be more likely to result in lower costs than bureaucracy.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 23:35
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Obama and McCain Tax Proposals

According to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain are both proposing tax plans that would result in cuts for most American families. Obama's plan gives the biggest cuts to those who make the least, while McCain would give the largest cuts to the very wealthy. For the approximately 147,000 families that make up the top 0.1 percent of the income scale, the difference between the two plans is stark. While McCain offers a $269,364 tax cut, Obama would raise their taxes, on average, by $701,885 - a difference of nearly $1 million.

This is not to comment on the merits or drawbacks of either plan...
 
The top 1% pays nearly 40% of personal income tax. Let's assume the total revenues from personal income tax is $2B (the real number must be lower). So the rich chip in $800B. If Obama raises their tax bracket by 10% he will rake in $80B more. Assume he'll leave the remaining tax brackets alone, no decrease, no increase. Also if he withdraws from Iraq, we'll save another $400B (today's budget deficit).
 
A simple question for you: where is he going to get the money for his proposed $400B to $500B healthcare plan?


I wonder if he (the HMOs, big Pharma, and those who profit from them will kill him first) could institute a single payor system, simply tell people that their current health premiums that they pay to private companies will be put towards a universal system.
Maybe Slartibartfast can find us a chart as to what America pays for healthcare per capita or as a percentage of GDP ( some sort of relevant measure) versus other rich capitalist countries.
Or, if you can be botherd, check out the PBS.org site or google T R Reid, a journalist who did such a study , then ask yourself how Americans can pay more and get less.

That was a perfect spin. I was talking money. They predict that Obama's plan should cost initially $400 Billion and eventually would transform into $1 trillion annyally. Know the federal government this would happen sooner rather than later. So how are we going to pay for it? We cannot run huge deficits forever. It will end not only the healthcare program but the entire country. THe last year tax revenues are $2.6 B. I think corporations pay around $800 B. The proposed $400 B represents about 20% of taxes collected from the general population. Doeas it mean that the income tax brackets should be adjusted by at least 15% across the board? 
 
Now back to your theme. I couldn't find that T R Reid piece. In what sense "Americans can pay more and get less?" We pay more and don't have universal coverage? Or we pay more and have worse medical care?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 23:42
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

For 2007 the US spent $2.3 trillion on healthcare, 16% of GDP.

Both Obama and McCain don't seem to have any clear path to cost containment.
True we spend the most, but look at the level of our pharmaceutical and medical device industry. The incentive drives innovation. Would you care to look for statistics on how many new drugs have been discovered in the past 30 years in the US and other countries? Socialized medicine of the entire world uses everything American
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 23:50
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

For 2007 the US spent $2.3 trillion on healthcare, 16% of GDP.

Both Obama and McCain don't seem to have any clear path to cost containment.
Sure they do Pat.  Tax the rich.  Or tax the poor.Wink



For some reason the belief, contrary to the reality in the countries that have universal health care, is that private cost less than public. Japan, Germany, the U.K., France, Switzerland, and Canada, all have a lower % of GDP spent on health care. Somehow, the profit motive is thought to be more likely to result in lower costs than bureaucracy.
I'm not an expert on the subject but are you sure we compare apples with apples here? If something costs less usually it's worse. An HMO doctor spends 5 minutes with you while a specialist who doesn't care about low insurance payments can spare 20-30 minutes. Not to mention the fact that lots of HMO doctors are good only if you go to them to die.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2008 at 07:55
Little sidebar, I was going through my links and came across this oldie but goodie that's still functional, the Dishonest Dubya Lying Action Figure.  It's an interactive cartoon of sorts so I have to link to it.  His days are numbered.  Go and have some fun.

http://www.stickergiant.com/dd/


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 19 2008 at 09:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2008 at 18:33


Sarah Palin by the Numbers
 Sarah Palin may lie, but numbers don't
  by my good friend Dan Kurtzman

 Link

 Excerpt:
2007: the year in which Sarah Palin first obtained a passport

312: the number of nights during her first 19 months in office that Palin charged taxpayers
a "per diem" totaling $16,951 for staying in her own home -- an allowance intended to
cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business

$500 to $1,200: the fee that Wasilla charged rape victims to pay for post-sexual assault
medical exams, after the city cut funds during Palin's tenure that had previously covered the exams

$150: the cash payment offered by the Palin administration to hunters
who turn in legs of freshly killed wolves gunned down from airplanes
 
 






Edited by Slartibartfast - December 19 2008 at 10:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2008 at 08:16
cartoon


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 19 2008 at 10:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2008 at 15:05
Tr081108

Edited by Slartibartfast - December 19 2008 at 10:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 05:55


Election spurs 'hundreds' of race threats, crimes

By JESSE WASHINGTON 15 hours ago

Cross burnings. Schoolchildren chanting "Assassinate Obama." Black figures hung from nooses. Racial epithets scrawled on homes and cars.

Incidents around the country referring to President-elect Barack Obama are dampening the postelection glow of racial progress and harmony, highlighting the stubborn racism that remains in America.

From California to Maine, police have documented a range of alleged crimes, from vandalism and vague threats to at least one physical attack. Insults and taunts have been delivered by adults, college students and second-graders.

There have been "hundreds" of incidents since the election, many more than usual, said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate crimes.

One was in Snellville, Ga., where Denene Millner said a boy on the school bus told her 9-year-old daughter the day after the election: "I hope Obama gets assassinated." That night, someone trashed her sister-in-law's front lawn, mangled the Obama lawn signs, and left two pizza boxes filled with human feces outside the front door, Millner said.

She described her emotions as a combination of anger and fear.

"I can't say that every white person in Snellville is evil and anti-Obama and willing to desecrate my property because one or two idiots did it," said Millner, who is black. "But it definitely makes you look a little different at the people who you live with, and makes you wonder what they're capable of and what they're really thinking."

Potok, who is white, said he believes there is "a large subset of white people in this country who feel that they are losing everything they know, that the country their forefathers built has somehow been stolen from them."

Grant Griffin, a 46-year-old white Georgia native, expressed similar sentiments: "I believe our nation is ruined and has been for several decades and the election of Obama is merely the culmination of the change.

"If you had real change it would involve all the members of (Obama's) church being deported," he said.

Change in whatever form does not come easy, and a black president is "the most profound change in the field of race this country has experienced since the Civil War," said William Ferris, senior associate director of the Center for the Study of the American South at the University of North Carolina. "It's shaking the foundations on which the country has existed for centuries."

"Someone once said racism is like cancer," Ferris said. "It's never totally wiped out, it's in remission."

If so, America's remission lasted until the morning of Nov. 5.

The day after the vote hailed as a sign of a nation changed, black high school student Barbara Tyler of Marietta, Ga., said she heard hateful Obama comments from white students, and that teachers cut off discussion about Obama's victory.

Tyler spoke at a press conference by the Georgia chapter of the NAACP calling for a town hall meeting to address complaints from across the state about hostility and resentment. Another student, from a Covington middle school, said he was suspended for wearing an Obama shirt to school Nov. 5 after the principal told students not to wear political paraphernalia.

The student's mother, Eshe Riviears, said the principal told her: "Whether you like it or not, we're in the South, and there are a lot of people who are not happy with this decision."

Other incidents include:

_Four North Carolina State University students admitted writing anti-Obama comments in a tunnel designated for free speech expression, including one that said: "Let's shoot that (N-word) in the head." Obama has received more threats than any other president-elect, authorities say.

_At Standish, Maine, a sign inside the Oak Hill General Store read: "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool." Customers could sign up to bet $1 on a date when Obama would be killed. "Stabbing, shooting, roadside bombs, they all count," the sign said. At the bottom of the marker board was written "Let's hope someone wins."

_Racist graffiti was found in places including New York's Long Island, where two dozen cars were spray-painted; Kilgore, Texas, where the local high school and skate park were defaced; and the Los Angeles area, where swastikas, racial slurs and "Go Back To Africa" were spray painted on sidewalks, houses and cars.

_Second- and third-grade students on a school bus in Rexburg, Idaho, chanted "assassinate Obama," a district official said.

_University of Alabama professor Marsha L. Houston said a poster of the Obama family was ripped off her office door. A replacement poster was defaced with a death threat and a racial slur. "It seems the election brought the racist rats out of the woodwork," Houston said.

_Black figures were hanged by nooses from trees on Mount Desert Island, Maine, the Bangor Daily News reported. The president of Baylor University in Waco, Texas said a rope found hanging from a campus tree was apparently an abandoned swing and not a noose.

_Crosses were burned in yards of Obama supporters in Hardwick, N.J., and Apolacan Township, Pa.

_A black teenager in New York City said he was attacked with a bat on election night by four white men who shouted 'Obama.'

_In the Pittsburgh suburb of Forest Hills, a black man said he found a note with a racial slur on his car windshield, saying "now that you voted for Obama, just watch out for your house."

Emotions are often raw after a hard-fought political campaign, but now those on the losing side have an easy target for their anger.

"The principle is very simple," said BJ Gallagher, a sociologist and co-author of the diversity book "A Peacock in the Land of Penguins." "If I can't hurt the person I'm angry at, then I'll vent my anger on a substitute, i.e., someone of the same race."

"We saw the same thing happen after the 9-11 attacks, as a wave of anti-Muslim violence swept the country. We saw it happen after the Rodney King verdict, when Los Angeles blacks erupted in rage at the injustice perpetrated by 'the white man.'"

"It's as stupid and ineffectual as kicking your dog when you've had a bad day at the office," Gallagher said. "But it happens a lot."

Associated Press writers Errin Haines, Jerry Harkavy, Jay Reeves, Johnny Taylor and researcher Rhonda Shafner contributed to this report.

Well, on the positive side at least more than half of us aren't like that.



Edited by Slartibartfast - December 19 2008 at 10:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2008 at 07:47

Anyone care to speculate on exactly what Blago is hiding behind the hair covering his forehead? LOL



Edited by Slartibartfast - December 19 2008 at 09:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 09:59

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 17:02
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Ermm
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 22:57
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

 
That's a disrespect to ass-talking people out there...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2008 at 15:49
Hey look, it was apparently on Faux News, so it must be true.

Get a load of this, and I don't want to hear any snickering from you guys outside the US:

Franken holds lead over Coleman, but it's not over

By PATRICK CONDON 11 hours ago

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) With the state Canvassing Board ready to award the last pile of votes in Minnesota's U.S. Senate recount, Democrat Al Franken clung to a narrow lead over Republican incumbent Norm Coleman. The final count, however, showed no sign of being settled soon.

On Tuesday, the board was scheduled to award votes from a remaining group of about 5,000 challenges that had been withdrawn by both campaigns. Based on a draft report released late Monday by the secretary of state's office, Franken will have earned 48 more votes than Coleman once those votes are allotted.

Several outstanding issues could still affect the final vote count. The two campaigns and the secretary of state's office are negotiating how to handle an estimated 1,600 improperly rejected absentee ballots. In addition, the state Supreme Court was scheduled to hear arguments Tuesday over a Coleman claim that about 130 ballots were counted twice.

Franken's 48-vote edge fell in line with a prediction issued by his campaign over the weekend, when attorney Marc Elias forecast that the Democrat would end up with a lead of 35 to 50 votes.

The Coleman campaign had been hoping that restored votes from the 5,000 withdrawn challenges would put the Republican back on top after Franken claimed his first lead Friday.

Now, Coleman's hopes hinge on two different scenarios: winning more than half of the votes in the improperly rejected absentee ballots or pulling ahead after alleged duplicate ballots are removed from the vote count if the campaign's attorneys can first convince the state Supreme Court that there is a genuine problem with duplicate ballots. The Franken campaign has disputed that claim.

Coleman's campaign manager, Cullen Sheehan, said the latest numbers from the secretary of state amounted to an "artificial lead" for Franken because of the duplicate ballot issue.

"We have no doubt that when these issues are properly resolved, Senator Coleman will be re-elected to the Senate," Sheehan said in a statement.

Once the Canvassing Board restores the votes from the final group of 5,000 withdrawn challenges, Franken will have gained 3,191 votes out of the total pool of challenged votes and Coleman will have gained 2,955 votes. That adds up to a 236-vote advantage for Franken, enough to wipe out the 188-vote lead that Coleman had held before the Canvassing Board started ruling on disputed ballots. That was out of almost 3 million votes cast on Nov. 4.

Any of you folks outside the US have a similar thing happen to your country or area?

Go Franken!  This would certainly make up for Chambliss getting back in from here in Georgia. LOL



Edited by Slartibartfast - December 29 2008 at 10:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2008 at 10:05



Edited by Slartibartfast - January 06 2009 at 18:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2009 at 18:20



Edited by Slartibartfast - January 11 2009 at 13:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 13:00



Edited by Slartibartfast - January 11 2009 at 13:20
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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