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Vibrationbaby View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 10 2005 at 14:38
Well, I guess hate is a little too strong. Who doesn`t care for this band and why? I`ve noticed that recently there have been quite a few Genesis topics being posted. I never really liked anything by them except LLDOB. Although I have the early stuff I never really listened to it that much. They were just too drab and couldn`t rock it out until Gabriel took over the band for that one album. Comparing their 70`s show with that of  bands like Hawkwind, Grobschnitt , Hoelderlin or Omega,a Genesis show is like going to a funeral. Nobody did anything except Gabriel.  I never saw the real Genesis in concert but I saw a cover band called The Musical Box do Selling England by the Pound and a few other earlier tracks from Foxtrot and was with an older friend who had seen the actual Genesis in the early seventies a few times and said that it was almost like the real McCoy. An Irish folk-rock band called FRUUP would frequently open for them on UK dates and why it wasn`t the other way around beats the hell out of me. Another thing that I don`t get is the Early Genesis/Fish era Marillion comparisons. They have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another. Fish was angry as hell and Gabriel was in fantasy land. If you absolutely love this band please refrain from responding to this post. I just want to hear hard in your face honest Genesis bashing here.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 15:20

Well Vibrationbaby...

"...hate is a little too strong. " - Probably so

"Who doesn`t care for this band and why? " - Never cared for them in the past or present...Don't know exactly or precisely why.  All I can say is, something's missin'

"...recently there have been quite a few Genesis topics being posted" - Just recently ? Seems like regularly...

"I never really liked anything by them except..." - Me neither...with no exceptions.

"I just want to hear hard in your face honest Genesis bashing here..." - Well, I'm not necessarily prepared to level any 16in. guns at 'em right now.
However...I am prepared anytime, anywhere, with anyone to deploy verbal nuclear devices targeted to Rap "music", most contemporary "Country-Western", and all disposable "Pop" ...

I recently met a guy here in Utah who sells Progressive music online (maybe you've been to his site = http://synphonic.8m.com/) I went to his house to buy CD's - ANYWAY... I explain to the guy that I don't care for Genesis... He freaked out...he was mildly agitated at me: "You don't like Genesis, what's the matter with you...every proghead has to like Genesis..."

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Edited by utah_man
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mirco View Drop Down
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Points: 819 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 15:35
Here's the thing: for some reason, I don't fell compelled to play Genesis albums. But when I finally do, I enjoy a lot. I recognize the quality and the beauty of Genesis, but there is something about it that bugs me, a something not recognize at this moment. 
Please forgive me for my crappy english!
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Points: 2234 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 15:44
i used to dislike them but i like them a lot now. they used to bore me.

i still think they are probably the weakest of the prog giants and massively overrated. they are good... but not THAT GOOD!!! also the majority of their albums are poor from what i have heard/read. seems like their only amazing pieces are from trespass to wind and wuthering. then they became more pop orientated in the 80s and 90s.

This is similar to yes, 1971-1974 is incredible and probably the best example of what prog rock really is. after that things were pretty poor IMO

pink floyd, i think are the most consistent prog band. i thought every studio album from 1967-1979 was incredible except for obscured by clouds. i rate them the best prog band.

i can see how in one sense genesis have grasped the whole prog thing better than pink floyd, genesis (and yes) are pure prog, in a symphonic element, whilst pink floyd are a psychadelic space/experimental band that had a very strong prog creativity in their music.
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Points: 2234 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 15:46
genesis and yes went all out in terms of making the music truely prog whilst bands like floyd dont, they just did their own thing which most of the time happened to be prog.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 16:10

Sorry Vibrationbaby, I like Genesis so you may to choose to disregard my comments, but with regard to the comments made by the on line music seller that utah_man mentions, I have to disagree. He says that all prog heads have to like Genesis. Thats bollox IMO. Your taste is personal to you and I fully respect that. I can just about tolerate Yes at the best of times, I hope Yes freaks respect that.

What I love about Genesis may be the very things you dislike. Thats cool! If we all agreed on everything, our discussions here would be very dull.

Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Points: 2373 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 16:16
I couldn't stand Peter Gabriel's voice once. I still don't like it today (this pertains only to his singing on Genesis albums, though) but I've learned to handle it and the other guys played well enough to make up for it.
"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Points: 430 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 16:23
 I didn't care for the first album that I ever heard by them, The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. I thought that it was too strange. Then I heard Selling England By The Pound and Foxtrot afterwards and liked them. I've learned to appreciate The Lamb more now. Like all challenging music, it takes awhile to get into, but once there it is more rewarding than simple ear candy.
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Points: 848 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 17:24

The first time I heard Yes - Going for the One Album - I hated it (as I did with ELP) - then for some reason I listened to the album again and I loved it, what changed ? I don't know - With Genesis I loved some of it on first listening, but it took me several months to get into Nursery Cryme and Trespass, even Duke and Abacab have grown on me in the past several years !!!

That's why I'm aiming to collect every single prog track recorded with hope that I will like it all before I die on the job aged 127.........



Edited by Swinton MCR
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Points: 225 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 17:50
Hey, well, Genesis. Love em' or hate em'. Or, kind of
like them, or dislike them. What's the difference?

"Although I have the early stuff I never really listened
to it that much."
                     ...Bu t I hate it!

"I never saw the real Genesis in concert but..."
                     ...Th ey must have sucked!

Contempt prior to investigation?

Edited by synthguy
Wearing feelings on our faces when our faces took a rest...
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Points: 4215 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 17:51
I've tried to listen to the earlier stuff again... but I agree with VB.... I don't hate them.. and I will listen to them over straight rock... but I find them somewhat boring and lifeless...
THIS IS ELP
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Points: 2234 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 17:53
Originally posted by synthguy synthguy wrote:

Hey, well, Genesis. Love em' or hate em'. Or, kind of
like them, or dislike them. What's the difference?

"Although I have the early stuff I never really listened
to it that much."
                      ...Bu t I hate it!

"I never saw the real Genesis in concert but..."
                      ...Th ey must have sucked!

Contempt prior to investigation?
The Worthless Recluse
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Rob The Good View Drop Down
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Points: 476 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 18:02
Personally, they're one of my favourite bands...but I can certainly understand why people dislike them.

I always believe a band has a particular style, and Genesis' style (I'd say quaint) tends to go over the top of a lot of people, and that's why they'd rather rock out so to speak. On the other side of the coin, I simply can't stand Dream Theater, because as metal as they are, to me they have no emotion whatsoever.

One can't expect to like ALL of Prog's great bands...given time, you may appreciate them. I agree with Blacksword, you're not 'missing' anything or it's not as if you don't 'get it'. They're just not to your taste, which is human nature innit?
And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster.
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Points: 26359 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 19:07
Genesis were never really that progressive. Banks never cared much for the synthesiser and stuck to using the Mellotron,which is a much more boring instrument IMO.But the beauty in Genesis music lies in the lyrics NOT in the playing.Banks was and still is a very ordinary keys man compared to Emerson or Wakeman ..that's a fact.Hackett as guitarist was in the slipstream of Howe while Collins was not 'brutal' enough to be a great drummer.But those wierd and poetic lyrics are the saving grace.They would have bombed otherwise.
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Points: 3484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 19:07
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Sorry Vibrationbaby, I like Genesis so you may to choose to disregard my comments, but with regard to the comments made by the on line music seller that utah_man mentions, I have to disagree. He says that all prog heads have to like Genesis. Thats bollox IMO. Your taste is personal to you and I fully respect that. I can just about tolerate Yes at the best of times, I hope Yes freaks respect that.

What I love about Genesis may be the very things you dislike. Thats cool! If we all agreed on everything, our discussions here would be very dull.

Another anti-Yes man........brother!!!...I also like Genesis
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 20:54

Richardh wrote:

Quote Genesis were never really that progressive.

OK, if Musical Box, Can-Utility and the Coastliners, The Fountain of Salmacis and the Whole Lamb Lies Down on Broadway are not  the purest expression of progressive rock, I don't know what you consider Prog'.

Richardh wrote:

Quote Banks never cared much for the synthesiser and stuck to using the Mellotron,which is a much more boring instrument IMO.

Well, at least you said it's your opinion, the use of Mellotron, Hammond Organ, Mini Moog, etc, is only a choice, if your music needs Mellotron, then you must use it. Jethro Tull bases their music in flute and vocals, Kansas in violin much more than in keyboards, Anglagard, one of the best progressive bands ever uses even 3 mellotrons plus flute, don't tell me neither of this bands is prog'

Richardh wrote:

Quote Banks was and still is a very ordinary keys man compared to Emerson or Wakeman ..

Not all the keyboardists have to wear capes, stab organs or make endless solos, Tony Banks worked in the creation of an atmospheric sound more unique than any other band or keyboardist. I'm not talking about skills, maybe Wakeman's or Emerson's technique is better, but Tony's sound for a band was far more solid.

Tony is anything except ordinary, hundreed of bands follow his style, something only a few do with Keith or Rick's style

If not lets tell all the Neo Prog bands who follow Banks that they are wrong and only following a guy who never played prog'.

Richardh wrote:

Quote Hackett as guitarist was in the slipstream of Howe

If I don't get what you want to say I ask excuses it's because my English, but IMO Hackett as a band player was at least in the level of Howe and as a soloist there's no comparison, 20 excellent albums speak for Steve Hackett.

Richardh wrote:

Quote Collins was not 'brutal' enough to be a great drummer

Please Richardh, guys like Palmer or Peart have to brutal because they play in power trios, the style required for Genesis is different, you know I'm not a Collins fan, but speaking honestly he's one of the top drummers. Let's remember neither Bruford, Manu Katche, Phil Ehart, Alan White are especially brutal, but they are great drummers. 

Richardh wrote:

Quote But those wierd and poetic lyrics are the saving grace

Please again Richardh, weird poetic lyrics? Sounds like you're describing Yes lyrics, Genesis based their lyrics in STORIES not in poetry (until ATOTT), complex stories about Mythology, History, Botanics, Sci-Fi, etc, but yes I agree, Genesis lyrics are awesome.

Iván



Edited by ivan_2068
            
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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2005 at 02:59

ivan

You got there before I did! Thankyou..

Richardh, to descrive Banks as an ordinary keyboard player is somewhat unfair. He is a very different player to Keith Emerson, thats for sure, but would Emerson style of playing and his stage persona really go with the music that Genesis make?? I dont think so. Same goes for Wakemen. All great players, but all different.

Tony Banks is a very skilled musician. His skill manifests itself partly in his songwriting, but mostly in his sense of melody, his original, unusual and highly effective chord progressions. We've all marvelled at Emerson beating the sh*t out of his Hammond organ, but his playing to me sounds like a flurry of notes played for the sake of showing off his classical influences, and how fast he can play. Even in his more subtle moments his playing lacks 'soul' IMO. I'm enjoying ELP at the moment, but they are not a patch on Genesis. Genesis bring out a truly emotional response in me. ELP just entertain.

The Mellotron...Boring???? What ????? I cant bring myself to argue on that one, mate.

Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2005 at 03:01
Originally posted by gdub411 gdub411 wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Sorry Vibrationbaby, I like Genesis so you may to choose to disregard my comments, but with regard to the comments made by the on line music seller that utah_man mentions, I have to disagree. He says that all prog heads have to like Genesis. Thats bollox IMO. Your taste is personal to you and I fully respect that. I can just about tolerate Yes at the best of times, I hope Yes freaks respect that.

What I love about Genesis may be the very things you dislike. Thats cool! If we all agreed on everything, our discussions here would be very dull.

Another anti-Yes man........brother!!!...I also like Genesis

Men of true taste gdub

Not that I'm really anti Yes, of course. I like a lot of what they do, and I find some of it ridiculous.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Points: 26359 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2005 at 03:10
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

Richardh wrote:

Quote Genesis were never really that progressive.

OK, if Musical Box, Can-Utility and the Coastliners, The Fountain of Salmacis and the Whole Lamb Lies Down on Broadway are not  the purest expression of progressive rock, I don't know what you consider Prog'.

Richardh wrote:

Quote Banks never cared much for the synthesiser and stuck to using the Mellotron,which is a much more boring instrument IMO.

Well, at least you said it's your opinion, the use of Mellotron, Hammond Organ, Mini Moog, etc, is only a choice, if your music needs Mellotron, then you must use it. Jethro Tull bases their music in flute and vocals, Kansas in violin much more than in keyboards, Anglagard, one of the best progressive bands ever uses even 3 mellotrons plus flute, don't tell me neither of this bands is prog'

Richardh wrote:

Quote Banks was and still is a very ordinary keys man compared to Emerson or Wakeman ..

Not all the keyboardists have to wear capes, stab organs or make endless solos, Tony Banks worked in the creation of an atmospheric sound more unique than any other band or keyboardist. I'm not talking about skills, maybe Wakeman's or Emerson's technique is better, but Tony's sound for a band was far more solid.

Tony is anything except ordinary, hundreed of bands follow his style, something only a few do with Keith or Rick's style

If not lets tell all the Neo Prog bands who follow Banks that they are wrong and only following a guy who never played prog'.

Richardh wrote:

Quote Hackett as guitarist was in the slipstream of Howe

If I don't get what you want to say I ask excuses it's because my English, but IMO Hackett as a band player was at least in the level of Howe and as a soloist there's no comparison, 20 excellent albums speak for Steve Hackett.

Richardh wrote:

Quote Collins was not 'brutal' enough to be a great drummer

Please Richardh, guys like Palmer or Peart have to brutal because they play in power trios, the style required for Genesis is different, you know I'm not a Collins fan, but speaking honestly he's one of the top drummers. Let's remember neither Bruford, Manu Katche, Phil Ehart, Alan White are especially brutal, but they are great drummers. 

Richardh wrote:

Quote But those wierd and poetic lyrics are the saving grace

Please again Richardh, weird poetic lyrics? Sounds like you're describing Yes lyrics, Genesis based their lyrics in STORIES not in poetry (until ATOTT), complex stories about Mythology, History, Botanics, Sci-Fi, etc, but yes I agree, Genesis lyrics are awesome.

Iván

I was playing ''Devils Advocate'' a bit in line with the thread.All good answers Ivan,won't argue on any points

 

 
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Points: 430 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2005 at 13:28

I agree with Iván. Tony Banks is underrated and  provided a lot of Genesis' atmospheric moodiness with his keyboard sounds.  Steve Hackett is an incredibly talented guitarist and composer of music. They both deserve more credit for creating the Genesis sound.
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