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My Road to Prog Enlightenment

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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: My Road to Prog Enlightenment
    Posted: November 17 2007 at 22:52
I am starting this blog to track my ever continuing journey on the road to prog enlightenment.  The earliest "new" songs I remember hearing from what are now some of my favorite prog bands on the radio were such prog "classics" as Owner of a Lonely Heart from Yes, New World Man from Rush, and Illegal Alien by Genesis.  I was a 12 or 13 year old kid at the time and I was listening to pop 40 music.  I suppose to a degree I may have had better taste than then I have now because I didn't really like those songs at that time.  It was about this same time that the heavy metal/hair metal albums Mental Health from Quiet Riot, Pyromania by Def Leppard, and 1984 by Van Halen were all released.  With these I was hooked and for the next 5 years my musical tastes were consumed by these and other mostly heavy metal bands such as Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Kiss, Motley Crue, Twisted Sister, Ratt (Yes, Micky, they were a favorite of mine at one time), Ozzy Osbourne, and Metallica, amongst many, many others. Now that I had a job and was making some money I could afford to spend some of these hard earned dollars on some of the necessities of life.  I bought my first CD player in 1988 and my first two CDs were OU812 by Van Halen, and Long,Cold Winter by Cinderella.  At that time, I was reading the book IT by Stephen King while listening to these two CDs over and over again.  To me OU812 was the perfect soundtrack to that book and I will always associate those two together.
 
I did not attend my first rock concert until the week or so after graduating from high school.  The first concert that I attended was David Lee Roth during the Skyscraper tour and he had Poison opening for him.  It was the 2nd ever show to be performed at the Palace of Auburn Hills which had opened the night before.  I can't remember who played the night before to open the Palace but I am pretty sure it was someone famous like Elton John or Paul McCartney or someone else in that vein.  At any rate, my next show was the Monsters of Rock concert which was an all-day concert that was playing down the road at the Pontiac Silverdome, former home of the Detroit Lions.  This concert consisted of Van Halen, The Scorpions, Metallica, Dokken, and Kingdom Come (the Led Zeppelin sound alike not the prog band).  It was an awesome experience and the one and only time that I have attended a show with more than 3 bands. 
 
Anyhow, on with the prog part of the story.  During this time period me and my buddies from high school would spend every evening playing basketball or wallyball and then head over to one of our houses to shoot pool or play cards and listen to each of our most recent purchases.  The one evening at my buddy's house he put on his brother's 2112 record from Rush.  We had the speed on 45 instead of 33 1/3 so it sounded kind of strange but since we weren't familiar with this album it played quite a bit before we realized our mistake.  Anyhow, we switched it to the correct speed and the rest as they say is history.  Shortly thereafter I went out and bought my first Rush CD which was Caress of Steel.  Bastille Day was absolutely awesome and it is still one of my favorites from them to this day.  Needless to say it didn't take long before I had their entire discography.  In 1989, they released Presto and it was the first brand new album that I owned from them.  I must have listened to it a hundred times if not more.  It was so awesome.  That tour was the first tour that I got to attend a Rush concert and I don't think that I have missed a tour since then.  Hence the nickname that I chose for this site and other sites that I have used it on, Rushfan4.  The 4 is just because the first time I selected it elsewhere, 1, 2, and 3 had already been chosen.  I assumed Alex, Geddy, and Neil had all been there first.
 
Since I was hooked on Rush, it was now time to set out and explore bands of a similar ilk.  In order to try out these bands I would purchase the various greatest hits packages that were available at the time.  If I liked them then I would explore further and expand my exposure to these various bands. I discovered Yes by purchasing the Classic Yes album.  I discovered Emerson Lake and Palmer by purchasing The Best of Emerson Lake and Palmer (I was sceptical that I would like it since the cover had a picture of Japanese women on it, so I was afraid I might be getting something like Turning Japanese).  I discovered Jethro Tull by purchasing Original Masters.  I am certain that I had heard all of these bands at one time or another on the radio plus everyone knew Pink Floyd for The Wall and Dark Side of the Moon and Genesis for Genesis, Invisible Touch, and Abacab (what do you mean Peter Gabriel once sang with them and they had good long progressive rock epics?)  King Crimson came later.  I don't think that I have ever heard them on the radio, but maybe I have heard Schizoid Man, I don't remember. 
 
My first new Yes album was the Union album (technically it would have been 90125 or Big Generator but I didn't purchase those until after I had gotten into Yes. And yes, I liked those albums enough that I continued to delve into other Yes albums). So again Union was an album I listened to hundreds of times and I absolutely loved.  This was also the first tour in which I saw Yes in concert.  What a spectacular show that was.  Two awesome drummers, two great guitarists, two excellent keyboardists (although obviously one is much better than the other), and the one of a kind bassist and vocalist.  Absolutely awesome show, and again another band that I have seen almost every other time they have come to town. 
 
My first "new" Pink Floyd album was Momentary Lapse of Reason.  My first new Emerson Lake and Palmer album was Black Moon.  The first new King Crimson album was Thrak.  My first new Genesis album was We Can't Dance, although obviously I had no choice but to be familiar with them because they were on the radio everywhere. 
 
Herein lies my dilemma.  I got hooked on all of these prog rock bands with their 1980's and 1990's material.  I became a "prog rock" fan because I loved all of the "prog rock" that these bands were producing in the 80's and 90's.  I come to this website and I am told that this music is not prog rock and that this music sucks.  So am I a prog rock fan or what?  The 7 bands that I listed above are the ones that I consider to be the Big 7 Classic prog rock bands because that is what I read on a couple of threads here and because they are all bands that I have been exposed to for a long time.  Bands like Camel, VDGG, and Gentle Giant are often referred to as replacements or as candidates for the top 10 bands, but until the past few years I had very little exposure to any of these bands. 
 
I pretty much love everything that these 7 classic prog bands have done from the classic albums of the 70's to the not-so classic albums of this millennium.  Yes there are some that are way better than others but all and all almost everything that these bands have done is better than what passes for mainstream music. 
 
Over the years I have discovered many other prog bands that I like.  However in recent years, between my subscription to Progression Magazine and hanging out here on Prog Archives I have discovered many other prog bands.  I have discovered that I really like most of what I have heard under the three categories that use to make up Art Rock, although I think Heavy prog is my favorite.  I also really like everything that I have heard under Neo-prog, and Symphonic prog.  I for one, am extremely greatful for the 3-way split of the prog metal category.  I like almost everything that I have heard that remained in the new Prog Metal category.  There are a couple of bands in both of the other two categories that I like, but the rest from what I have had heard are outside of my tolerance level.  I suspect in my mind that the bands that I do like that are in those categories are probably mislabeled but I am sure that the Collabs have their reasons and I don't have any problems with that.  I have dabbled in Jazz-fusion and have not been disappointed but I do prefer lyrics with my music so keep my listening there to a minimum.  I have not spent much time in the other categories but really have been disappointed in what I have heard.  I am sure that the music in these categories is really good if that is where your tastes are, but as of yet mine are not there.  Never hurts to keep trying. 
 
My purpose of this blog will be to continue my growth into knowing what is prog.  I hope to become enlightened by those who are the enlightened ones.  I know that music is art and categorization of art is subjective.  The old different strokes for different folks.  You say tomato, I say tomato (alright so that doesn't work well typed but I think you know what I mean.  Alright maybe I say Tormato).  From time to time I will post here various miscellaneous questions that come to mind or items that come up in other threads that particularly intrigue me.
 
Am I a lost cause since I grew up on 80's and 90's prog music, and I actually like it?
 
What is the difference between a well-crafted pop song and a poorly-crafted prog song?
 
What is the difference between symphonic rock and symphonic prog and symphonic metal? 
 
Why does stringing a couple of pop song ideas together to make a long song make it a prog song, and yet a similar sounding pop song is kept separate and kept to 3 1/2 minutes and it is but a pop song? 
 
These and many other thoughts may pop up here and certainly may be spun off into their own threads.  Any input is extremely welcome and hopefully kept positive. 
 
If you have made it to this point of my ramblings than you should now have further insight into who I am and somewhat of how I came to be here.  Hopefully, you haven't put me on the automatic "block all posts from" list, but I can certainly understand if you have.  I hope that some of you have taken similar paths, and also that some of you have similar questions and are looking for the same enlightenment and we can help each other along this road.   I can help with pumping gas, but not so much with changing flat tires, although I'm sure I can help if necessary.  If you have read this far, thank you.  Hopefully, we may all benefit from what might be posted in this blog from time to time.  If not, then at least hopefully we will be entertained.
 
 


Edited by rushfan4 - March 18 2008 at 18:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Easy Livin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 11:28
Nice one RF4.
 
Others should try doing something similar, I'm sure it must be very therapeutic.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 15:30
Symphonic Rock is the same thing with what we call Symphonic Prog. One thing to note is that Symphonic Rock does not equal Rock with Orchestral arrangements, despite many think so.

Originally posted by rushfan4

Am I a lost cause since I grew up on 80's and 90's prog music, and I actually like it?


You may redeem yourself by purchasing the obscure new prog that a few chosen ones will recommend you. Evil%20Smile

Originally posted by rushfan4

Why does stringing a couple of pop song ideas together to make a long song make it a prog song, and yet a similar sounding pop song is kept separate and kept to 3 1/2 minutes and it is but a pop song?


Those themes and motifs do not make a song prog because of the length, but because of the treatment they get... Musical themes and motifs are the same in prog or pop, it's the exposition, development and conclusion of the treatment what needs to have a certain complexity or refinement in order to get prog...

There! Light. Big%20smileLOL


Edited by andu - November 18 2007 at 15:48
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 22:52
Originally posted by Easy Livin

Nice one RF4.
 
Others should try doing something similar, I'm sure it must be very therapeutic.
 
Thank you Bob.  It actually was somewhat therapeutic.  Hopefully it will lead to more knowledge and understanding, and the best part, more prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 23:26
Originally posted by andu

Symphonic Rock is the same thing with what we call Symphonic Prog. One thing to note is that Symphonic Rock does not equal Rock with Orchestral arrangements, despite many think so.

Originally posted by rushfan4

Am I a lost cause since I grew up on 80's and 90's prog music, and I actually like it?


You may redeem yourself by purchasing the obscure new prog that a few chosen ones will recommend you. Evil%20Smile

Originally posted by rushfan4

Why does stringing a couple of pop song ideas together to make a long song make it a prog song, and yet a similar sounding pop song is kept separate and kept to 3 1/2 minutes and it is but a pop song?


Those themes and motifs do not make a song prog because of the length, but because of the treatment they get... Musical themes and motifs are the same in prog or pop, it's the exposition, development and conclusion of the treatment what needs to have a certain complexity or refinement in order to get prog...

There! Light. Big%20smileLOL
 
Thank you Andu.  In a recent discussion regarding Lana Lane I was informed that her band and her were more symphonic rock than symphonic prog, which kind of confused me.  To my untrained ear the music that I have heard sounds very familiar to other bands that I have heard that are symphonic prog or symphonic metal.  The music may or may not be prog, and I suppose the difference may be in what you say is "the treatment they get".  What sounds complex to me may actually be simple to those in the musical know. 
 
I'm always interested in purchasing new music that blows my socks off, even if my wallet doth protest.  My explorations here have been hit and miss.  I have found some real nice new stuff with bands like Abigail's Ghost, Amaran's Plight, Black Bonzo, Oceansize, and Pure Reason Revolution, amongst others.  But there have also been major disappointments with bands like Fantomas, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, and Meshuggah, amongst others.  My biggest disappointment has been Opeth because as I have posted way too many times, their music is awesome but I can't stand the vocals. 
 
In regards to the pop song issue I have read many a thread where it has been discussed that bands, especially Genesis and Yes, really just wrote pop songs, but by merging two or three different song ideas and creating a longer song they now created a prog song or quite frankly an epic prog classic.  In their latter days, they still wrote those pop songs, but let them stand alone instead of merging them with other pop song ideas and now they were no longer prog bands but pop bands.  A classic example might be something like Genesis' Duke album which started out as an epic and then was broken up into separate songs because of the desire to distance themselves from prog.  If that had been kept exactly the same but merged as one epic song would it be a prog rock epic instead of a bunch of pop songs.  Not being a musician this is outside my realm of expertise in regards to the actual difference in the complexity of the songs from Duke versus their more classic epic tracks from the earlier eras, although this earlier complexity is more obvious to everyone else.  A band like Yes is constantly ripped for their hit Owner of a Lonely Heart, but one of their first minor hits was Time and a Word.  What's the difference? Neither song included Steve Howe or RIck Wakeman, but one was before they became great and the other was after? (Not saying that either is a prog song).  And I love I've Seen All Good People, but seriously, they repeat that same line over and over again at the end.  Did this influence Journey with their Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin' ending of "na-na-na-na-na-nas" that last forever at the end.
 
To quote Alex Lifeson's wife, what I really need to do is "Shut Up and Play the Guitar", And maybe, just maybe, one day I might just learn how to do that.


Edited by rushfan4 - November 18 2007 at 23:29
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2007 at 03:33
Originally posted by rushfan4

 
What is the difference between a well-crafted pop song and a poorly-crafted prog song?
 
 
I will offer this definition of pop in order to get people thinking about what they mean when they refer to pop.
 
If you can whistle it and it still sounds ok even though it obviously lacks all of the nuances of the recording, then you are whisting pop (or God help you, country!!!)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Teh_Slippermenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2007 at 04:35
Originally posted by rushfan4

We had the speed on 45 instead of 33 1/3 so it sounded kind of strange but since we weren't familiar with this album it played quite a bit before we realized our mistake.



First off, I LOL'd. LOL

Since I only recently--like last month\earlier this month--bought "2112" (which confirmed my Rush fandom, must now buy "A Farewell to Kings") on CD, I didn't have this problem, lawl.



I became a "prog rock" fan because I loved all of the "prog rock" that these bands were producing in the 80's and 90's.  I come to this website and I am told that this music is not prog rock and that this music sucks.  So am I a prog rock fan or what? 



EDIT: Stupid system won't quote you. I'm answering your "So am I a prog fan or what?" question here:

Second, YES, you are as much of a prog fan as anybody else on these boards. (Well, you still have a bit of Growing Up--/Peter Gabriel reference--, if you will, to do. Tongue) I also grew up with the 80s\90s material of Yes and Genesis (well, to get it straight, I grew up with a cassette of "We Can't Dance"! And I still listen to a CD copy that I bought my mother as a gift from time to time, although CERTAINLY not as much as "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" or "Nursery Cryme", I'm still digging into the past of Genesis). I heard "Owner of a Lonely Heart" on the radio when I was young, and then looked for more and bought "The Yes Album", which I took to immediately, from the first blaring notes of "Yours is No Disgrace" to the catchy vocals of "A Venture", I loved it all. I shortly bought "90125" on cassette after that and now I don't like Rabin-led Yes anymore. Confused

I guess I became angry with Trevor after hearing "Relayer" and realizing that it was put out by the same band who did the arena rocker "Owner of a Lonely Heart", because he took it over...

 
I have discovered that I really like most of what I have heard under the three categories that use to make up Art Rock, although I think Heavy prog is my favorite.  I also really like everything that I have heard under Neo-prog, and Symphonic prog.  I for one, am extremely greatful for the 3-way split of the prog metal category.  I like almost everything that I have heard that remained in the new Prog Metal category.  There are a couple of bands in both of the other two categories that I like, but the rest from what I have had heard are outside of my tolerance level. I have dabbled in Jazz-fusion and have not been disappointed but I do prefer lyrics with my music so keep my listening there to a minimum.  I have not spent much time in the other categories but really have been disappointed in what I have heard.  I am sure that the music in these categories is really good if that is where your tastes are, but as of yet mine are not there.  Never hurts to keep trying. 


U liek wat u liek. Keep digging further, is all I can say. That's what I'm doing. Because of prog, thank God for it, I've come to realize that there IS still good music. I've also discovered great older bands such as Camel and Nektar. (You say that you haven't had much exposure to Camel, try "Mirage", the epic at the end is brilliant IMO) BTW, since you like symphonic prog, you could also try "A Song for All Seasons" by Renaissance.



 
Am I a lost cause since I grew up on 80's and 90's prog music, and I actually like it?


No. You wouldn't be here if you WERE. Tongue

 
What is the difference between a well-crafted pop song and a poorly-crafted prog song?


Well-crafted pop song is a moving popular rock song. Case in point: "Dreaming While You Sleep" by Genesis. Poorly-crafted prog is.....is...um.....it's when a prog song is boring, and unimaginative? Can't give you a case in point, as nearly every prog song that I've heard is brilliant. Well, I'm sure I've heard quite a few, but nothing comes to mind.



What is the difference between symphonic rock and symphonic prog and symphonic metal? 


Symphonic rock\prog are the same. No difference except in naming.

Symphonic metal would be a variation of symphonic rock only.....there is MOAR METAL. That's the only way I can describe it. LOL



BTW, I'm new to prog as well, technically, so I also have a progressive journey to make. <_<


And now it is quite late, and of course I am Sleepy. So, I'll come back here tomorrow.


Edited by Teh_Slippermenz - November 24 2007 at 04:42
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2007 at 14:43
Teh slippermenz,
 
Thank you for the response.  Confirmation of Rush fandom is definitely a good thing.  A Farewell to Kings is definitely an excellent next stop on the Rush highway.  Although, I am not the greatest for offering advice there since I like nearly everything that the guys from Rush have done.  All of the "experts" say that the 5 album period starting with 2112 is their best. 
 
Yes are my second favorite band to Rush and for that I like almost everything from the first notes of Beyond and Before to the last notes of Time is Time.  Tales of Topographical Oceans was probably the album I had the hardest time getting into.  It is still difficult to listen to the album as a whole, but hearing the individual songs independently or on live albums I have grown to appreciate them.  Relayer was probably the second hardest for me to appreciate.  I like it quite a bit now too.  Like many fans I still prefer The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close to the Edge over these other two.  My bigger problem in relation to Prog, is that I still like 90125, Big Generator, Talk, and Open Your Eyes.  I think that these are all great albums with fine moments.  Maybe they are well crafted pop songs, or they are poorly crafted prog songs, but in either rate these are albums that I still like.  As I said above Union was my first "new" Yes album and I have some great memories of it.  I  haven't listened to it in a while and should problem throw it on to see if it now induces the vomit factor that it does to others, but I doubt it.  It is bad enough that I like these albums, but I have also tracked down Trevor Rabin's solo albums and albums with the band Rabbitt.  Nothing outstanding there but still good music.
 
In regards to Camel, I have a compilation album called A Compact Compilation which includes Freefall and Lady Fantasy from Mirage and Song Within a Song and Lunar Sea from Moonmadness.  I also have The Snow Goose, Rain Dances, and Dusts and Dreams.  I also own Echoes The Retrospective which contains songs from most of their albums.  I haven't listen to most of this in a long time so I don't really recall the sound too much.  I did listen to Snow Goose recently to refresh my memory and thought it had some decent moments, but it was kind of slow moving for my tastes. 
 
I have heard some samples of Nektar but don't recall their sound either.  Sort of jazzy if I recall. With Renaissance I recently heard "The Other Woman" which was OK, but nothing spectacular, but I believe this to be their least progressive work.  Otherwise I have not explored them much further.  I will keep A Song for All Seasons in mind as a next listening point for them.  Another older band that I have neglected and would really like to explore next is Focus.  Aside from Hocus Pocus, I am pretty much completely unfamiliar with them.  If and when I track anything else down I will know if that is the further direction to go.
 
The other problem of course is there is so many new bands to explore as well.  In the last couple of weeks, I have been listening to Amaran's Plight, Abigail's Ghost, Pure Reason Revolution, Grayceon, and Oceansize amongst others.  In the meantime, Saga, Satellite, Dug Pinnick, and others have all released new albums that are on my must get as soon as possible list. 
 
I'm not necessarily new to prog since I have been listening to forms of it for at least 20 years, but when it comes to everything that has been and is out there, I am still a n00b.  My above ramblings were in response to the doubts that have crept into my mind as to whether or not I really am a prog fan.  Given that I seem to like so much of what others dislike.  I suppose that my tolerance level just leans further to the pop side than others.  There are certainly nonprog bands out there that I enjoy as much if not more than the prog bands.  My musical tastes just aren't exclusive to prog.  I don't care for most of what gets played on mainstream radio or MTV, but once in a while a song gets through to me from these avenues. 
 
Anyhow thank you again for your response.  It is great to hear others ideas towards my confusions.  I have found that I have liked much of what I have heard that is considered prog.  The technical and extreme sides of things seem to be a bit too much for me but otherwise I have been quite pleased with most of my recent findings and discoveries.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Teh_Slippermenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2007 at 20:40
Originally posted by rushfan4

 
Yes are my second favorite band to Rush and for that I like almost everything from the first notes of Beyond and Before to the last notes of Time is Time.  Tales of Topographical Oceans was probably the album I had the hardest time getting into.  It is still difficult to listen to the album as a whole, but hearing the individual songs independently or on live albums I have grown to appreciate them.  Relayer was probably the second hardest for me to appreciate.  I like it quite a bit now too.  Like many fans I still prefer The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close to the Edge over these other two.  My bigger problem in relation to Prog, is that I still like 90125, Big Generator, Talk, and Open Your Eyes.  I think that these are all great albums with fine moments.  Maybe they are well crafted pop songs, or they are poorly crafted prog songs, but in either rate these are albums that I still like.  As I said above Union was my first "new" Yes album and I have some great memories of it.  I  haven't listened to it in a while and should problem throw it on to see if it now induces the vomit factor that it does to others, but I doubt it.  It is bad enough that I like these albums, but I have also tracked down Trevor Rabin's solo albums and albums with the band Rabbitt.  Nothing outstanding there but still good music.


I thought "Talk" was mediocre, although "The Calling" was pretty good. All in all, I'm not a big fan of Rabin I suppose, although I should probably check out his other projects besides what he did with Yes. Haven't heard "Open Your Eyes". I liked "Union" for the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe tracks that they threw on there and tried to call Yes. LOL




LADY FANTASY:


THAT'S the epic at the end "Mirage" that I was talking about. Brilliant IMO.

 
As for FOCUS, try "Hamburger Concerto". I loved that one. I heard it on an internet prog radio station (I listen to three of them, so I can't tell you which one it was as I don't remember, but it may have been ProgRockRadio or Stellar Attraction). Not to mention it's one of the top 20 key Symphonic Prog albums.



 
I'm not necessarily new to prog since I have been listening to forms of it for at least 20 years, but when it comes to everything that has been and is out there, I am still a n00b.  My above ramblings were in response to the doubts that have crept into my mind as to whether or not I really am a prog fan.  Given that I seem to like so much of what others dislike.  I suppose that my tolerance level just leans further to the pop side than others.  There are certainly nonprog bands out there that I enjoy as much if not more than the prog bands.  My musical tastes just aren't exclusive to prog.  I don't care for most of what gets played on mainstream radio or MTV, but once in a while a song gets through to me from these avenues. 


Same here, actually. Sometimes I have doubts that I am really a progressive rock fan, but I think the fact that I loved "Tales from Topographic Oceans" (which I still have to listen to more, there's a problem with my turntable, it plays too fast, I have to touch my finger to the label to get it to play right. *sigh*) confirms my fandom, as well as taking to "Relayer", and Camel, and Nektar, and Mike Oldfield and lots of others.

And as for MTV.....I dropped them shortly after they took off Beavis & Butt-Head. LOL

Although, aren't they only playing "reality" programming and rap music videos, anyway?

 


Edited by Teh_Slippermenz - November 24 2007 at 20:44
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2007 at 23:44

As much as I like PA for the guidance it provides for finding new prog music or old prog music that I don't have, it also reminds me of some of the great music that I bought awhile back and haven't listened to in a long time.  Seeing polls comparing this band to that band, or "which song on this album is your favorite" has led me to dust off many an old gem in the past few months. After my previous response I pulled out the Echoes retrospective for Camel since I haven't listened to it in quite awhile.and yes, Lady Fantasy is an excellent piece of music.  Also, Rhayader and Rhayader Goes to Town are the only representatives from the Snow Goose, and I think that those are easily my favorite from this album.  I've only listened to the first disc so far as I was driving from place to place in my car, but it contains as I remembered some very good music. 

I also pulled out my King Crimson albums which I haven't listened to in a long long time.  Being a Yes fan, I am more of a fan of the Bruford years than the older years, but at any rate I decided that I would review the King Crimson discography.  I made it through the first 4 and gave my reviews.  I also listened to the 5th, Larks Tongue in Aspic (awesome album).  I haven't done that review yet, but sooner or later I will continue along that path.  At any rate it has been kind of fun revisiting these older albums.  Also, though I had to purchase Islands because by doing the reviews in order I found out that I didn't have that one, which for some reason I thought I did. 
 
Hamburger Concerto is tops on my list of Focus that I need to track down.  I haven't heard it yet but I have definitely seen people rave about it, so I certainly want to give it a shot.
 
Beavis and Butthead is probably the last time that I regularly watched MTV.  I actually use my TV as an alarm in the morning and it turns on to ESPN.  Some mornings when it goes to commercials I'll start flipping through the channels and MTV is like 1 or 2 channels off from ESPN.  Once in a while I will catch a song on there (or maybe it is VH1; I don't pay that much attention to which channel it is on).  Most recently I saw a video from Bruce Springsteen's new album.  Mostly though when flipping through I see crap from Pink or one of the former American Idol contestants.  For some reason though, I started listening to Evanescence because of a couple of different videos I had seen in the past couple of years and for some reason it appealed to me.  Yet another confession to add to the reasons that will sooner or later get me banned from this site. 
 
So much good prog to listen too, and so little time to listen.
 
 


Edited by rushfan4 - November 24 2007 at 23:45
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rileydog22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2007 at 23:48
Too....many....long....posts.....

feel....inferior.....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2007 at 23:49
Originally posted by rushfan4

 
Hamburger Concerto is tops on my list of Focus that I need to track down.  I haven't heard it yet but I have definitely seen people rave about it, so I certainly want to give it a shot.
 
Beavis and Butthead is probably the last time that I regularly watched MTV.
 


great blog Clap


and some clappies  are in order...a couple for  havning the good sense to check out the Hamburger Concerto

ClapClap

and a couple more for the Beavis and Butthead statement... MTV was never the same after it went off. LOL  Neither have I for that matter hahah

ClapClap


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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2007 at 00:28
hehe hehe, he said "clap".
 
I probably haven't listened to Metallica, AC/DC or Krokus since Beavis and Butthead went off of the air either.
 
Thank you for the clappies Micky, they are much appreciated. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2007 at 00:35
Originally posted by rushfan4

hehe hehe, he said "clap".
 
I probably haven't listened to Metallica, AC/DC or Krokus since Beavis and Butthead went off of the air either.
 
Thank you for the clappies Micky, they are much appreciated. 


hahah.. oh no me either.. I loved  the off the wall grunge sh*t they'd play..  I even bought a Babes in Toyland album after seeing them cut up on a video of theirs... oh which album was it... oh yeah.. Fontanelle. I heard Kat screaming  Liar!... and I had to have it LOL

no problem on the clappies....  enlightenment can bring many things.. wisdom.. inner peace and crap like that ... but here at prog archives...  it brings you the most and rare and precious of rewards...

clappies... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Teh_Slippermenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2007 at 03:10
Originally posted by rushfan4

As much as I like PA for the guidance it provides for finding new prog music or old prog music that I don't have, it also reminds me of some of the great music that I bought awhile back and haven't listened to in a long time.  Seeing polls comparing this band to that band, or "which song on this album is your favorite" has led me to dust off many an old gem in the past few months. After my previous response I pulled out the Echoes retrospective for Camel since I haven't listened to it in quite awhile.and yes, Lady Fantasy is an excellent piece of music.  Also, Rhayader and Rhayader Goes to Town are the only representatives from the Snow Goose, and I think that those are easily my favorite from this album.  I've only listened to the first disc so far as I was driving from place to place in my car, but it contains as I remembered some very good music. 

I also pulled out my King Crimson albums which I haven't listened to in a long long time.  Being a Yes fan, I am more of a fan of the Bruford years than the older years, but at any rate I decided that I would review the King Crimson discography.  I made it through the first 4 and gave my reviews.  I also listened to the 5th, Larks Tongue in Aspic (awesome album).  I haven't done that review yet, but sooner or later I will continue along that path.  At any rate it has been kind of fun revisiting these older albums.  Also, though I had to purchase Islands because by doing the reviews in order I found out that I didn't have that one, which for some reason I thought I did. 
 
Hamburger Concerto is tops on my list of Focus that I need to track down.  I haven't heard it yet but I have definitely seen people rave about it, so I certainly want to give it a shot.
 
Beavis and Butthead is probably the last time that I regularly watched MTV.  I actually use my TV as an alarm in the morning and it turns on to ESPN.  Some mornings when it goes to commercials I'll start flipping through the channels and MTV is like 1 or 2 channels off from ESPN.  Once in a while I will catch a song on there (or maybe it is VH1; I don't pay that much attention to which channel it is on).  Most recently I saw a video from Bruce Springsteen's new album.  Mostly though when flipping through I see crap from Pink or one of the former American Idol contestants.  For some reason though, I started listening to Evanescence because of a couple of different videos I had seen in the past couple of years and for some reason it appealed to me.  Yet another confession to add to the reasons that will sooner or later get me banned from this site. 
 
So much good prog to listen too, and so little time to listen.
 
 




OK, I'm just going to quote your whole post here so that the system doesn't screw up and remove a quoted section and shrink my text. :|


I also prefer the Bruford-era of King Crimson, the years with Bruford and Wetton produced some of my favorite KC material.


Evanescence....don't worry about liking them, I think I saw two My Chemical Romance fans here on PA. Stern%20Smile

Or was that YesFans.com.....or something.....meh, whatever.

I've never heard Camel's "The Snow Goose", so I'll have to try that one sometime.

And, speaking of good prog to listen to, let me add to your load by adding Anthony Phillips's "The Geese and the Ghost". LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2007 at 03:41
Originally posted by rushfan4

  My bigger problem in relation to Prog, is that I still like 90125, Big Generator, Talk, and Open Your Eyes.  I think that these are all great albums with fine moments.  Maybe they are well crafted pop songs, or they are poorly crafted prog songs, but in either rate these are albums that I still like.  As I said above Union was my first "new" Yes album and I have some great memories of it.  I  haven't listened to it in a while and should problem throw it on to see if it now induces the vomit factor that it does to others, but I doubt it. 
 
Obviously the scope of your taste is far larger than the restrictive boundaries of what we have agreed to call progressive rock.  So it is with most people, I feel sure.
 
I don't have the excuse of having Union as my first album.  I started listening to The Yes Album and Fragile and waited eagerly for every new release after Tormato.  I can tell you why Union isn't that great of an album, but I listen to it more than I listen to anything post-Tormato with the exception of the Ladder, the Keys albums, and possibly Big Generator.  And I'm ok with that.  Something about Union makes it very easy on my ears (unlike Open Your Eyes, for instance.)  I usually only listen to the first half or so of it, though, giving up somewhere around Angkor Wat.
 
That I pick and choose when I listen to some of the grade-B Yes probably goes a long way towards explaining my attitudes.   For example, with Drama I usually just want to hear Machine Messiah and Tempus Fugit.  Those very rare times that I put on 90125, I usually just listen to the last three tracks.  I like Big Generator, but when I had it on vinyl I would spin the B side a lot more than I did the A side.  When I get Talk out (which is very rare as well) I go straight for State of Play.  I'm not necessarily going for the proggiest tracks, the most complex tracks, the most rocking tracks or the tracks that are ear candy.   I'm going for the ones that resonate with me, regardless of what kind of music we call them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2007 at 23:08
John Wetton is another guy who appears in many bands where the prog masses are split.  I think there are many who don't like King Crimson's output with him, although there are many that do (and it seems that he is preferred to Adrian Belew).  Asia is highly disliked on this site, which I guess from a "prog" standpoint I understand, but otherwise they have released some really good music.  Both during the supergroup era and the John Payne era.  Another band that I like quite a bit.  When Silent Nation came out it was one of my favorite albums from that year.  I saw them in concert that year and their show was excellent.  But alas, no love for Asia on this site.  UK is highly regarded, but then again they only released two albums, and most prog fans really like their first album alot, and the second not so much.  I'm not familiar with all of his musical involvements but most of what I have heard involving him is pretty good. 
 
In regards to Anthony Phillips, I will have to check out "The Geese and the Ghost".  I have a Finger Painting album from him but it didn't really hold my interest.  Mostly really short instrumental songs.  I don't mind instrumentals here and there but generally I prefer vocals.  Although, for the most part I like most of Steve Howe and Bill Bruford's solo output (and Earthworks) and much of Rick Wakeman's.  Artists like Niacin, LTE, and Derek Sherinian tend to hold my attention as well but the music is generally heavier than what I heard on the Anthony Phillips album.
 
I'm re-listening to Talk since I haven't listened to it for awhile.  I figured that well maybe I will hate it now since the derision is getting in to my head; but I don't.  The first three songs are very good.  The drumming is OK, not great, but Alan keeps a good beat.  Admittedly, Chris Squire doesn't seem to be doing anything to memorable.  But I really like Trevor Rabin's guitar playing and tone and Jon's vocals and the harmonizing are as good as always.  By the way, I'm listening to State of Play and it is a very good song.  Is this great, "can't stop listening to", "I can't believe that they did that" music?  No, of course not, but it is still very good in my opinion.  People complain when bands repeat the same formulaic music (DT) but then they also complain when they change their sound because why couldn't they have recaptured the sound of CTTE or TOTO or Relayer.   (Now up to track 6 and still liking all of the songs, and I know that I really like Endless Dream so I still like this album).
 
I guess some of my frustration is probably similar to Stonebeard's thread regarding elitism.  I certainly find many things in common with many people on this site, but then the negative comments come regarding these "poppier" albums that I like, but many don't and it is just frustrating.  To which of course the response is "Who cares?".  Which is true, I like what I like, and since I am happy liking what I like that is all that matters. 
 
For some reason either my ITunes or my computer's CD player is acting up.  The last couple of days my ITunes has become nonresponsive after playing every other song on the CD.  Now this is really frustrating.  My other frustrations are just trivial ramblings to pass the time.  Although I definitely enjoy the positive feedback.  Thanks for helping me on my road to prog enlightenment.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2007 at 17:42
Since this is my blog, I decided to fill it with additional useless information.  I was perusing the different subgenre key albums to see where I stand within the various subgenres.  There was a separate thread a couple of month back regarding being a subgenre completionist.  I had a general post there, but wanted to explore this a bit further within the various subgenres.
 
Progressive Metal - 19 out of 20 key albums; the only one that I don't have is Kamelot's Black Halo.  I'm not familiar with them at all.
 
Prog-Related - 13 out of 20 key albums.  Go figure that the second most popular category for me would be a non-prog category.
 
Proto-Prog - 12 out of 20 key albums.  And of course, the third most popular category would be the other non-prog category.
 
Heavy Prog - 11 out of 20.  Mostly Rush.  This is one of my favorite subgenres and yet I don't have too many of the top albums.  Room for exploration. Clap Although 4 of the ones that I am missing are Anekdoten and I don't know that I will be able to get my grubby paws on any of those. 
 
Eclectic Prog - 11 out of 20 key albums.  I guess that this really isn't my category.  It is dominated by King Crimson, Gentle Giant, and Van der Graaf Generator.  Probably my least favorite of the classic prog era.  GG & VDGG are both relatively new listens for me.  GG has grown on me some.  VDGG hasn't yet, but I will keep trying.  KC has both good and bad phases.  I'm not as big into their improvisation years as others.  I tend to prefer the early Bruford years to any other era of KC.
 
Symphonic Prog - 10 out of 20.  Another category where many of my favorite bands are, and yet I only have half of the key albums.  Exploration is so much fun.  Clap
 
Neo-Prog - 9 out of 20.  Another of my favorite subgenres.  And yes more exploration. Clap.  Unfortunately, some of the top albums like Nexus and Triangle don't seem to be available anywhere.  Possibly with Greg Walker where I suppose I could check.
 
Prog folk - 8 out of 20.  Really I just dabble here, but since this is the home of Jethro Tull, The Strawbs, and Traffic that means I have 8 of the top 20 albums here.
 
Psychedelic Space Rock - 7 out of 20. 5 Pink Floyd and 2 Oceansize.  Otherwise I know very little from this subgenre (excluding some Hawkwind and the early era of Porcupine Tree).
 
Crossover Prog - 5 out of 20 key albums.  This is somewhat surprising because I like a lot of the bands that are listed, but I guess I just haven't discovered the key albums yet.
 
Experimental Post Metal - 3 out of 20 key albums.  The only 3 that I have are Tool's Lateralus, Dead Soul Tribe's A Muder of Crows, and OSI's Office of Strategic Intelligence.  I will definitely be getting Dead Soul Tribe's A Lullaby for the Devil and maybe a couple of others, but the rest of the bands don't interest me too much.

Tech/Extreme Prog Metal - 3 out of 20 key albums.  I have 2 of the Opeth (Not Ghost Reveries) and Nothingface from Voivod.  I like Opeth's music but can't stand the death metal vocals (as I have made known way too many times).  I do like some of Voivod's output but not all of it.  The only other band that I have heard and they were OK, was Psychotic Waltz. 

Jazz/fusion - 3 out of 20.  This isn't surprising since I only dabble here.  1 Mahavishnu album, 1 Bill Bruford album, and 1 Derek Sherinian album (the latter 2 mainly because of their associations with other bands).
 
Canterbury - 3 out of 20.  I like Caravan. 
 
Post Rock/Math Rock - 2 out of 20. I have 2 GY!BE albums.  I don't really like them very much though.
 
Krautrock - 2 out of 20. I have 1 from Amon Duul and 1 from Can.  I don't really like these very much either. 
 
RIO/Avant - 2 out of 20.  I have 1 from Frank Zappa and 1 from Sleepytime Gorilla Museum.  Both are OK but not really my cup of tea. I will probably further explore Mr. Zappa however, since he is so highly regarded on PA, and it is said that his sound covers so many different arenas I am bound to find at least some good stuff from him.  I will further explore some of the threads that were dedicated to discovering some good Frank Zappa, although I think that at least 1 PA member mentioned each of his 1 gazillion albums so I don't know how useful that will be. LOL
 
I have nothing from the other 3 subgenres Indo-Prog/Raga Prog; Italian; or Zeuhl.  I'll probably explore the Italian prog further just because the streaming on this site that I listened to sounded interesting.  The other two categories will probably long be ignored by me however.
 
Other than the traditional prog metal and the non prog categories I have much exploring to do amongst the various subgenre key albums.  And of course much more room for prog enlightenment.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2007 at 18:06
Originally posted by rushfan4

Since this is my blog, I decided to fill it with additional useless information.  I was perusing the different subgenre key albums to see where I stand within the various subgenres.  There was a separate thread a couple of month back regarding being a subgenre completionist.  I had a general post there, but wanted to explore this a bit further within the various subgenres.
 
Progressive Metal - 19 out of 20 key albums; the only one that I don't have is Kamelot's Black Halo.  I'm not familiar with them at all.
 
Prog-Related - 13 out of 20 key albums.  Go figure that the second most popular category for me would be a non-prog category.
 
Proto-Prog - 12 out of 20 key albums.  And of course, the third most popular category would be the other non-prog category.
 
Heavy Prog - 11 out of 20.  Mostly Rush.  This is one of my favorite subgenres and yet I don't have too many of the top albums.  Room for exploration. Clap Although 4 of the ones that I am missing are Anekdoten and I don't know that I will be able to get my grubby paws on any of those. 
 
Eclectic Prog - 11 out of 20 key albums.  I guess that this really isn't my category.  It is dominated by King Crimson, Gentle Giant, and Van der Graaf Generator.  Probably my least favorite of the classic prog era.  GG & VDGG are both relatively new listens for me.  GG has grown on me some.  VDGG hasn't yet, but I will keep trying.  KC has both good and bad phases.  I'm not as big into their improvisation years as others.  I tend to prefer the early Bruford years to any other era of KC.
 
Symphonic Prog - 10 out of 20.  Another category where many of my favorite bands are, and yet I only have half of the key albums.  Exploration is so much fun.  Clap
 
Neo-Prog - 9 out of 20.  Another of my favorite subgenres.  And yes more exploration. Clap.  Unfortunately, some of the top albums like Nexus and Triangle don't seem to be available anywhere.  Possibly with Greg Walker where I suppose I could check.
 
Prog folk - 8 out of 20.  Really I just dabble here, but since this is the home of Jethro Tull, The Strawbs, and Traffic that means I have 8 of the top 20 albums here.
 
Psychedelic Space Rock - 7 out of 20. 5 Pink Floyd and 2 Oceansize.  Otherwise I know very little from this subgenre (excluding some Hawkwind and the early era of Porcupine Tree).
 
Crossover Prog - 5 out of 20 key albums.  This is somewhat surprising because I like a lot of the bands that are listed, but I guess I just haven't discovered the key albums yet.
 
Experimental Post Metal - 3 out of 20 key albums.  The only 3 that I have are Tool's Lateralus, Dead Soul Tribe's A Muder of Crows, and OSI's Office of Strategic Intelligence.  I will definitely be getting Dead Soul Tribe's A Lullaby for the Devil and maybe a couple of others, but the rest of the bands don't interest me too much.

Tech/Extreme Prog Metal - 3 out of 20 key albums.  I have 2 of the Opeth (Not Ghost Reveries) and Nothingface from Voivod.  I like Opeth's music but can't stand the death metal vocals (as I have made known way too many times).  I do like some of Voivod's output but not all of it.  The only other band that I have heard and they were OK, was Psychotic Waltz. 

Jazz/fusion - 3 out of 20.  This isn't surprising since I only dabble here.  1 Mahavishnu album, 1 Bill Bruford album, and 1 Derek Sherinian album (the latter 2 mainly because of their associations with other bands).
 
Canterbury - 3 out of 20.  I like Caravan. 
 
Post Rock/Math Rock - 2 out of 20. I have 2 GY!BE albums.  I don't really like them very much though.
 
Krautrock - 2 out of 20. I have 1 from Amon Duul and 1 from Can.  I don't really like these very much either. 
 
RIO/Avant - 2 out of 20.  I have 1 from Frank Zappa and 1 from Sleepytime Gorilla Museum.  Both are OK but not really my cup of tea. I will probably further explore Mr. Zappa however, since he is so highly regarded on PA, and it is said that his sound covers so many different arenas I am bound to find at least some good stuff from him.  I will further explore some of the threads that were dedicated to discovering some good Frank Zappa, although I think that at least 1 PA member mentioned each of his 1 gazillion albums so I don't know how useful that will be. LOL
 
I have nothing from the other 3 subgenres Indo-Prog/Raga Prog; Italian; or Zeuhl.  I'll probably explore the Italian prog further just because the streaming on this site that I listened to sounded interesting.  The other two categories will probably long be ignored by me however.
 
Other than the traditional prog metal and the non prog categories I have much exploring to do amongst the various subgenre key albums.  And of course much more room for prog enlightenment.
 
 
I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the Can album you have is Tago Mago. In that case, do not give up on it! I was so anti it, but after i had forced myself to listen to "Halleliwah" around.. 10 times or so, i was totally addicted, and it became my most listened to album on itunes with just about 100 plays, so i can promise you it is worth it. The trick for me was to shift focus from the drums to the guitar. That drum loop CAN get a bit tiresome after 18 minutesm, i admit.

And, well. the same with Godspeed. Those two came aroound at pretty much the same time, i guess it was just at a time when long song formats and noise suited me :)

Rock on, rush fan!

'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2007 at 18:22
Hi Evans,  Actually the Can album that I have is Future Days.  I also have Anthology which is a two disc set.  I haven't listened to either in quite awhile so I don't recall what it was about them that I didn't like, or maybe it was it just didn't grab my attention.  That is the same issue that I have had with GY!BE.  Not enough action.  Or probably not enough patience on my part.  At any rate I should definitely give these some more listens to see if my tastes have changed at all.
 
Thank you for the advice.
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