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Topic ClosedRobert Wyatt or Phil Collins

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Poll Question: Which artist have you discussed more at PA?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
33 [44.00%]
30 [40.00%]
12 [16.00%]
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 10:19
Originally posted by A B Negative A B Negative wrote:

Originally posted by Dr. Occulator Dr. Occulator wrote:

I get tired of people slamming Phil because his solo stuff became commercial.
He's twice the drummer & singer that Robert Wyatt ever was.
 
Less is more Wink

More or less. Big%20smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 12:10
Robert Wyatt, of course.
 
Phil Collins has a solo career I'm not interested in at all. Phil Collins was a member of a band each mentioning of which causes me to turn the page (there are plenty of such pages here...). Naturally, I have no reasons to mention him.
 
On the other side, I like the Canterbury scene music very much. I have many albums by different bands and artists, including Soft Machine, Matching Mole, Robert Wyatt solo and even Michael Mantler. Naturally, again, that I discussed and mentioned him much more often (even started a thread on Robert Wyatt once...)
 
Eugene
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 13:05
I've got nothing against Phil C. AT ALL, and as far as I can tell he's a better drummer than Robert W. used to be - his playing with Brand X is just awesome. But calling Phil a better SINGER is a step too far! Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've devoted more time and space here to RW, and I plan to continue that way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 13:07
W(h)yatt?
Because he never sold himself to pop music;
Because he had some rhythms that Collins would never imagine;
Because he's a more interesting singer;
Because he's Wyatt.
 
So, which is my vote? Big%20smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 13:23
Wyatt, because i like Soft Machine better than Genesis.
Because he sings & plays drums better.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 13:53
Fassbinder: I'd like to get Micheal Mantler's Many Have no Speech, Bjork's Medulla for his collaboration on "Submarine." And his stuff with David Gilmour is interesting ("Comfortably Numb" click -- too bad he has to read the lyrics.  I much prefer his contribution to "Then I close my Eyes").

And not to leave out Phil Collins, there's his contribution/ collaboration on the hip-hop group Bone Thugs-N-Harmony remake of "Take me Home" on their album Thug World Order.  It was so popular in the UK, from what I've read, that the "Thugs" named Collins an honorary member, giving him the name "Chrome Bone". Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBLAWIlAz0

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

And Phil Collins was terrific in South Park! ->Wink

Are we talking the episode with Phil Collins' hill or did I miss one?

Good poll BTW, I much prefer an apples to apples comparison to an apples to oranges. Big%20smile


Thanks... There were two consecutive episodes which lampooned Phil Collins... "Cartman's Silly Hate Crime" (with the hill) and Timmy 2000 (where the kids were all on Ritalin for ADD, Timmy with band was to open a  concert, but Phil Collins did instead, and all the kids in their complacent state watched Phil Collins until they were given Ritalout to reverse the effect of the drugs and he was booed off stage).  I've always rather wished that episode had ended with "Squonk" -- love that rockin' song, but I wouldn't expect it as they were parodying "You'll be in my Heart" (and parodying Phil Collins generally).  He's always clutching his Oscar because Phil Collins got an Oscar for that song, instead of it going to the South Park movie's "Blame Canada"  which also was nominated.

Paloz: I'm guessing your vote is Wyatt, but some choose to talk about Phil Collins a lot because they perceive him to have "sold himself" to pop music; and believe that he has tarnished Prog's creds somehow (by moving to pop but also due to comments that are not exactly complimentary towards the Prog movement).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 14:26
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'd like to get Micheal Mantler's Many Have no Speech, Bjork's Medulla for his collaboration on "Submarine." And his stuff with David Gilmour is interesting ("Comfortably Numb" click -- too bad he has to read the lyrics.  I much prefer his contribution to "Then I close my Eyes").
 
Thanks for the link, Logan! It was nice, especially in comparison with "Comfortably Numb" I was already acquainted with -- that one was simply painful, for me.
 
As for Michael Mantler -- I have only The Hapless Child. A fascinating album... You're acquanted with this, aren't you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 14:55
I get sick of people that put down Phil because his solo albums and pop orentation
He's better  drummer & singer that Robert Wyatt ever was.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 14:55
Originally posted by Fassbinder Fassbinder wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'd like to get Micheal Mantler's Many Have no Speech, Bjork's Medulla for his collaboration on "Submarine." And his stuff with David Gilmour is interesting ("Comfortably Numb" click -- too bad he has to read the lyrics.  I much prefer his contribution to "Then I close my Eyes").
 
Thanks for the link, Logan! It was nice, especially in comparison with "Comfortably Numb" I was already acquainted with -- that one was simply painful, for me.
 
As for Michael Mantler -- I have only The Hapless Child. A fascinating album... You're acquanted with this, aren't you?


I'm only passingly familiar with the album. I forgot about that. I've only heard samples before, but listening now to the album samples at amazon, I'm reminded of how much I need this.  Terrific! Thanks for mentioning it.

And his work on "Comfortably Numb" is a rather low point for me, as is his rendition of The Monkees "I'm a Believer" (I know the story behind that).  He's human, and the humanness adds to the Wyatt charm for me, in a way, so I can accept the good with the poor.

EDIT:
Originally posted by b_olariu b_olariu wrote:

I get sick of people that put down Phil because his solo albums and pop orentation
He's better  drummer & singer that Robert Wyatt ever was.


Ah yes, we went through this before. LOL

Originally posted by Dr. Occulator Dr. Occulator wrote:

I get tired of people slamming Phil because his solo stuff became commercial.
He's twice the drummer & singer that Robert Wyatt ever was.


Edited by Logan - December 04 2007 at 15:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 15:15
Originally posted by Fassbinder Fassbinder wrote:

 
Thanks for the link, Logan! It was nice, especially in comparison with "Comfortably Numb" I was already acquainted with -- that one was simply painful, for me.
 



I saw that clip.  Rather embarrassing for Wyatt, I'd think. Embarrassed


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 04 2007 at 15:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 15:26
Slartibartfast: Have you seen Wyatt's rendition of of the Monkees' "I'm a Believer?" click
(with Nick Mason on drums, I believe)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 17:24


EDIT:
Originally posted by b_olariu b_olariu wrote:

I get sick of people that put down Phil because his solo albums and pop orentation
He's better  drummer & singer that Robert Wyatt ever was.


Ah yes, we went through this before. LOL

Originally posted by Dr. Occulator Dr. Occulator wrote:

I get tired of people slamming Phil because his solo stuff became commercial.
He's twice the drummer & singer that Robert Wyatt ever was.
[/QUOTE]

I guess I should be a little more conciliatory. I do enjoy Robert Wyatt creative & original talent. To put it another way they are somewhat like apples & oranges: Phil is definitely more mainstream and Robert is definitely more out-there. Both are great musicians.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 18:00
Collins.
 
I have a fairly complete Robert Wyatt collection and precisely no Phil Collins solo albums at all. I regard Robert Wyatt as a national treasure and I find his music, politics and general outlook pretty close to ideal, but I haven't discussed him that much on PA.
 
I have, however, made numerous posts pointing out Collin's resemblance to Bob Hoskins, both Mitchell brothers off Eastenders, Jimi Somerville, Mel Smith, 2 of Right said Fred and just about any other semi famous slap head. I have also acknowledged his talent as a drummer (especially his work with Brand X) and as a Genesis front man up to and including Duke. But he's still a bald Censored with an unforgivably bad solo career.
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 21:00
Collins! Great drummer, and a talented composer despite what many people say here. No Jacket Required is such a great album! And, well, I've always liked very much post-Gabriel Genesis. Playing good commercial stuff doesn't mean you're a talentless or bad musician. People here tend to confuse those things. Confused Anyway, it's just my opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 21:58
Originally posted by Barla Barla wrote:

Collins! Great drummer, and a talented composer despite what many people say here. No Jacket Required is such a great album! And, well, I've always liked very much post-Gabriel Genesis. Playing good commercial stuff doesn't mean you're a talentless or bad musician. People here tend to confuse those things. Confused Anyway, it's just my opinion.


Exactly, just because you play pop doesn't mean you're a bad musician. While I'm not a big fan of "No Jacket Required", I do like a lot of Collins's compositions, although I grew up listening to Collins and a cassette copy of "We Can't Dance". Hell, I didn't even know Peter Gabriel was even associated with Genesis until last year! Even then, I didn't know Genesis by anything except "We Can't Dance", and that "Land of Confusion" song.

BTW, Genesis didn't really go pop until "Genesis" (even then, they STILL played prog with "Second Home by the Sea" and "Domino", etc.), Abacab is progressive, but it depends on the piece. "Man on the Corner" is pop. "Dodo/Lurker" is progressive rock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 22:16

Phillip would be my choice no doubt.

And In The End, The Love You Take, Is Equal To The Love You Make
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 22:28
^ Because you've got a whole Lota love for Phil, I hope. Smile

Originally posted by Szyzgy Szyzgy wrote:


I have a fairly complete Robert Wyatt collection and precisely no Phil Collins solo albums at all. I regard Robert Wyatt as a national treasure and I find his music, politics and general outlook pretty close to ideal, but I haven't discussed him that much on PA.

...I have, however, made numerous posts pointing out Collins' resemblance to Bob Hoskins, both Mitchell brothers off Eastenders, Jimi Somerville, Mel Smith, 2 of Right said Fred and just about any other semi famous slap head. I have also acknowledged his talent as a drummer (especially his work with Brand X) and as a Genesis front man up to and including Duke. But he's still ... bald....


Szyzgy: I'm surprised, I had you pegged as more of a Phil Collins/ Barry Manilow/ Kenny-G kind of guy. ;)  His resemblance to those balding individuals is uncanny, I must say.  Incidentally, it's unknown that he was Bruce Willis' stunt double in the Die Hard films and that he had secretly replaced Patrick Stewart by the turn of Star Trek: The Next Generation's second season.  Partially due to Collins extensive acting experience -- which includes such highlights as his turn as the loveble Cockney pickpocket Artful Dodger and the lovable Cockney burglar Buster -- but mostly due to the lack of hair,  no one noticed the switch beyond Picard's sudden cockney-infused inflections and slang.  And that's a load of old pony.

Originally posted by Dr. Occulator Dr. Occulator wrote:


I guess I should be a little more conciliatory. I do enjoy Robert Wyatt creative & original talent. To put it another way they are somewhat like apples & oranges: Phil is definitely more mainstream and Robert is definitely more out-there. Both are great musicians.


You mean they're both fruits Angry, sort of, or both kind of fruity? But seriously, nice sentiments.   Both are very different, but I can enjoy both (my tastes are quite eclectic).

Originally posted by Teh_Slippermenz Teh_Slippermenz wrote:

Originally posted by Barla Barla wrote:

Collins! Great drummer, and a talented composer despite what many people say here. No Jacket Required is such a great album! And, well, I've always liked very much post-Gabriel Genesis. Playing good commercial stuff doesn't mean you're a talentless or bad musician. People here tend to confuse those things. Confused Anyway, it's just my opinion.


Exactly, just because you play pop doesn't mean you're a bad musician. While I'm not a big fan of "No Jacket Required", I do like a lot of Collins's compositions, although I grew up listening to Collins and a cassette copy of "We Can't Dance". Hell, I didn't even know Peter Gabriel was even associated with Genesis until last year! Even then, I didn't know Genesis by anything except "We Can't Dance", and that "Land of Confusion" song.

BTW, Genesis didn't really go pop until "Genesis" (even then, they STILL played prog with "Second Home by the Sea" and "Domino", etc.), Abacab is progressive, but it depends on the piece. "Man on the Corner" is pop. "Dodo/Lurker" is progressive rock.


Indeed, I think he's very talented, and going pop in no way diminishes the talent.  As is often said, it's very hard to write a good, successful pop tune. 
"Genesis didn't really go pop until "Genesis.'"
Yes, I think that's when the bubble burst with a resounding POP - no weasel required, though some seem to need someone to blame.


Edited by Logan - December 04 2007 at 22:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 22:30
oh come on now...


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 22:31
^ I really don't know how anyone can resist that lovable face.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2007 at 22:33
Originally posted by Szyzgy Szyzgy wrote:


Right said Fred


another one down on the unofficial list of bands you would never expect to find mentioned here at PA's LOL
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