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Topic ClosedSantana vs Mahavishnu Orchestra

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Poll Question: Which of these great jazz rock players do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
21 [38.89%]
33 [61.11%]
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The Pessimist View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Santana vs Mahavishnu Orchestra
    Posted: January 12 2008 at 16:59
Damn this poll is tough. I didn't realise it so much when i thought of it still, my vote goes with Santana. Caravanserai remains one of my top favourite Latin Jazz albums, and probably in my top 6 prog albums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2008 at 17:39
Mahavishnu beats Santana on every level by so far. Santana made some wannabe fusion in the 70's, which was good music, but not from a fusion standpoint. McLaughlin was one of the originators of the genre, he knew what he was doing. Santana just looks amatuerish in comparison.
"It's music, and I like it" - Miles Davis on Sketches of Spain
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2008 at 17:44
Santana's stuff is pretty good, but King Crimson776 just said it all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2008 at 17:46
To me, what McLaughlin did to jazz-fusion is what Fripp did to prog.

Edited by ProgBagel - January 12 2008 at 17:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2008 at 18:01
I went with Mahavishnu for pretty much what has been stated on here. I did like the Santana/McLaughlin CD in '73.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2008 at 18:40
M.O. all the way!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2008 at 18:49
Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.

Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.

PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!


Edited by Hercules - January 12 2008 at 18:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2008 at 19:13
''BIRDS OF FIRE''......''INNER MOUNTING FLAME''......magical albums, the holy grail of prog!Thumbs%20Up
 
the second version of the band with Jean Luc Ponty was not as good as the first M.O. but still pleasant to my ears
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2008 at 00:03
Tough call!

Santana for me...but not really because of his guitar playing--I am a huge fan of Mingo on congas and the overall songwriting.

Mahavishnu John got a bit too big for his britches.
Thank you, God of Rock, for this chance to kick ass
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2008 at 01:50
Mahavishnu Orchestra, of course.
 
Santana is a great guitarist, don't get me wrong. But, Mahavishnu is one of the best, if not the best, fusion bands around, and as a whole, way more talented than Santana.
 
And, lets face it...John McLaughlin>Carlos Santana. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2008 at 11:09
Originally posted by Hercules


Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!


Excuse me, but you ask any jazz-head around: Latin IS jazz. And Santana is Latin music crossed with rock music, making it Latin/Jazz Rock. get your facts straight mate
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2008 at 11:10
Well i never heard anything by that Mahavishnu Orchestra thing so i cant vote.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2008 at 14:24
Originally posted by kibble_alex

Originally posted by Hercules


Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!


Excuse me, but you ask any jazz-head around: Latin IS jazz. And Santana is Latin music crossed with rock music, making it Latin/Jazz Rock. get your facts straight mate


I do not need to ask "any jazz-head", Latin is a completely separate area from Jazz though some forms use the improvisational styles common to Jazz, but by no means all - and Santana is one who normally doesn't. If you doubt this, consult any university music text on the subject ( I recommend Ed Morales' book "the Latin Beat") but please don't quote those who merely have an opinion as authorities. I have just consulted my nephew who lectures in Popular Music at Leeds College of Music and he nearly p**sed himself laughing at your comment.
I have many faults. Being wrong is not one of them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2008 at 15:14
The MO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2008 at 17:52
Originally posted by Hercules


Originally posted by kibble_alex

Originally posted by Hercules


Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!


Excuse me, but you ask any jazz-head around: Latin IS jazz. And Santana is Latin music crossed with rock music, making it Latin/Jazz Rock. get your facts straight mate
I do not need to ask "any jazz-head", Latin is a completely separate area from Jazz though some forms use the improvisational styles common to Jazz, but by no means all - and Santana is one who normally doesn't. If you doubt this, consult any university music text on the subject ( I recommend Ed Morales' book "the Latin Beat") but please don't quote those who merely have an opinion as authorities. I have just consulted my nephew who lectures in Popular Music at Leeds College of Music and he nearly p**sed himself laughing at your comment.


good for him, but I've played jazz all over the place: at college, jazz orchestras and small jazz groups, and we all play Latin as a style of jazz music. "Jazz" drummers play Latin as part of the "Jazz" sylibus, i know many jazz conductors and jazz musicians who state that Latin is the other side of jazz. Maynard Ferguson is a jazz-trumpeter and he specialises mainly in Latin composition, so I'm afraid I also have authoritative contacts as well. You are also disagreeing with the admins of this site as well, as they have categorised Santana under Jazz Rock/ Fusion. At the end of the day, who cares anyway. Can't it just be called "music"?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2008 at 10:41
The Mahavishnu Orchestra
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2008 at 18:08
Originally posted by kibble_alex

Originally posted by Hercules


Originally posted by kibble_alex

Originally posted by Hercules


Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!


Excuse me, but you ask any jazz-head around: Latin IS jazz. And Santana is Latin music crossed with rock music, making it Latin/Jazz Rock. get your facts straight mate
I do not need to ask "any jazz-head", Latin is a completely separate area from Jazz though some forms use the improvisational styles common to Jazz, but by no means all - and Santana is one who normally doesn't. If you doubt this, consult any university music text on the subject ( I recommend Ed Morales' book "the Latin Beat") but please don't quote those who merely have an opinion as authorities. I have just consulted my nephew who lectures in Popular Music at Leeds College of Music and he nearly p**sed himself laughing at your comment.


good for him, but I've played jazz all over the place: at college, jazz orchestras and small jazz groups, and we all play Latin as a style of jazz music. "Jazz" drummers play Latin as part of the "Jazz" sylibus, i know many jazz conductors and jazz musicians who state that Latin is the other side of jazz. Maynard Ferguson is a jazz-trumpeter and he specialises mainly in Latin composition, so I'm afraid I also have authoritative contacts as well. You are also disagreeing with the admins of this site as well, as they have categorised Santana under Jazz Rock/ Fusion. At the end of the day, who cares anyway. Can't it just be called "music"?

Dude, admit it; Latin is not necessarily jazz, you play Latin as a style of jazz music, Santana, and many others, don't. The admins aren't the final authority either. And of course it's music, but that doesn't give you an idea of what they sound like, does it. "What genre is Santana?" "Music." "Oh yeah, that's what Mahavishnu Orchestra plays too."
"It's music, and I like it" - Miles Davis on Sketches of Spain
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 17:01
Sorry if I'm late.. Santana, perhaps not musically but fave of course.

MO they're really great musically, like above said, a type of KC in prog.
But Santana for me is much more listenable..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 21:43
Santana's style is a bit repetitive but he's a good guitarist. Whereas the Mahavishnu Orchestra is absolutely mindblowing and did so much for fusion jazz. So MO it is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2008 at 00:05
If you consider the entire body of work of each, I have to go with MO.  Santana's had some great moments.  And let's don't forget you can have both sort of, the McLaughlin/Santana album Love, Devotion, and Surrender.
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