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The most musically complex prog band(s)?

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Dominic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dominic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 18:26
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I don't even know what qualifies as complex anymore.


Silly, it's whatever band you happen to find impressive based on your musical interests and abilities. Big%20smile

My friend who doesn't like "Prog" for example, thinks that Korn is obviously more complex then King Crimson. He plays the guitar just like a Nu Metal musician as well; he thinks he's a brilliant player.

It's all in the beauty of subjectivity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leningrad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 18:36
Wow, I'm the first to mention Egg? Shame!

Trying to decipher some of the time changes on The Polite Force borders frustrating.

Edited by Chameleon - March 03 2008 at 18:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 19:45

I would say Zappa right away, for very evident reasons. I don't really know a lot about music, but I know he composed some very hard-to-play music. Then would probably come King Crimson, because Fripp is a pretty crazy guy!

?: (
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gamemako Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 19:46
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

*has read the forum for years and can't even work out what "musically complex" means based on people's responses*


Truth. Sounds like a grandstand for people's favorite bands.

As for technically difficult to decipher, Meshuggah would have to be my top pick. But whether one considers that "musically complex," I'd have to wonder.
Hail Eris!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JROCHA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 19:50
Return to Forever
Mahavishnu Orchestra
Mastodon
Rush- Hemispheres and A farewell to Kings
King Crimson
Al Di Meola
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drakk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 20:04
No Behold... The Arctopus?

I'll also second Egg.
 
I'll also add Gong.
[QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss]
I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde!

Al di Meola.

[/QUOTE]

haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde
[/QUOTE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote everyone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 22:35
Another silly pole.....sorryConfused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 22:37
^ I wouldn't call it silly, at least it has remained positive

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote explodingjosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 22:42
It's probably alot better to say specifically why you think these band are musically complex, based on your knowledge as a musician... other wise this will just be a thread of band names.

My choices are:
Planet X - I only have the Quantum album, and I only bought it because of good reviews and the presence of Allan Holdsworth (not much of a DT fan). But I soon realized that this cd has tons of mind boggling and confusing patterns that take several listens to memorize. They use alot of polyrhythms and deliberate beat displacement to trip up anyone trying to find a groove. Many sections have the feel of several time signatures at once. Virgil Donati makes it sound easy, too.
Meshuggah - This band has completely redefined what 4/4 means to me. Suddenly this seemingly simple meter has over 64 trap doors frequently used by Thorendal to f**k (the proper term) with the listener's mind. They frequently use polyrhythmic passages that are precise down to and sometimes past the 16th note, kept in check by a constant 4/4 beat. And just when you're comfortable with the new pattern of counting, Thomas Haake removes the 4/4 and sometimes the listener is left to fend for his own groove. And the solos from Future Breed Machine and Glints Collide contain some of the most complex tapping I know of. It seems like that's the point of  some of their music: to confuse/mesmerize the listener, no matter how good they can count.
Mahavishnu Orchestra - Pretty much for the same reasons as Meshuggah, except you have more crafty soloists. Good luck counting.

Those have all been rhythmically complex examples, and I understand rhythm alot more than I do chords, melody and music theory. The best example to my knowledge of complex music is Frank Zappa and Gentle Giant. Zappa's music seems to have alot of various chords and textures, which I see as a complex thing to create.


Edited by explodingjosh - March 03 2008 at 23:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 23:07
nice to see PX slowly starting to get the praise they deserve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote everyone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 23:28
99.9% of the polls on the site are sillyLOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 23:31
agreed, all polls everywhere are ridiculous, but this one's not bad..   and it's not a poll
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 23:45
I  am surprised no-one mentioned Van der Graaf Generator, who can be amazingly complex. One of their specialties, which occurs in several songs, is that they combine the riffs of a slow section and and a fast section of a song and play them at the same time, with very complex results. Or listen to "Meurglys III, the songwriter's Guild" with it's fugue-like intro.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 00:35
Originally posted by everyone everyone wrote:

Another silly pole.....sorryConfused
 
I can't see what's silly about this thread... It could lead to good musical discussions...Confused
 
"How often do you shave"... now that's silly!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 02:39

I really wonder about the point of posting in a thread just to say it's sillyUnhappy....

Anyway, I completely agree with what Laplace said in his earlier post. Either we analyse a band's music according to theoretical principles of musical composition, or we judge it according to what WE perceive as being complex - which, of course, is highly individual. There may even be someone who finds, say, Celine Dion's music to be complexLOL...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Petrovsk Mizinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 04:01
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

There may even be someone who finds, say, Celine Dion's music to be complexLOL...
 
Let that be the last time that's said here on PALOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dedalus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 05:07
the king of the kings: king crimson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 05:21
I forgot to mention the opera "The Fall of the House of Usher" by Peter Hammill, which in my opinion is the most complex music ever written by a prog artist. not only do we have great and complicated melody lines and polyphony of the highest order (just listen to the "Voices of the House"), no, the whole structure of this magnum opus of Peter Hammill is very complex too. in the 6th and final act (which has a breathtaking climax) he uses several themes which appear throughout the opera and combines them with a stunning and utterly convincing result. I have never heard anything that comes close to this in complexity from any other progressive artist, including Hammill himself

Edited by BaldJean - March 04 2008 at 07:01


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 10:29

I am not a musician and have no idea of musical principles. Therefore I will not add names here but agree that when one claims a band to be complex one should explain why that band is complex.

Rafaela, keep in mind that most of us are men = children. Therefore we tend to use words like silly which can hurt others. It's not our fault ! We did'nt grow up yet (and probably never will).
omri
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulieg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 11:48

I'll second the inclusion of VDGG.  What a band!!!!

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