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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jean-Pierre Alarcen and Eden Rose
    Posted: March 25 2008 at 23:50
Alarcen was the guitarist for French Proggers SANDROSE (which are already in the archives)

I'll start with Eden Rose, though that's not the project I'm particularly interested in, but Jean-Pierre Alarcen did the guitar work... It's described at myspace as Progressive/Jazz/Rock/Psychedelia/Funk Here it is on http://www.myspace.com/edenroseband
And here is a bio on the band: http://www.dprp.net/forgotten/edenrose/

Alarcen performed guitar on Janko Nilovic's "Giant" too for those who know of him. he has collaborated ina number of projects and is featured on the Various Artists Un Voyage en Progressif - Volume Six and Volume Two albums.

From rateyourmusic.com

1978 Jean-Pierre Alarcen 2 issues 2 8
 
 
3.35
rate
1979 Tableau N° 1 2 issues 1 8
 
 
3.55
rate
1998 Tableau N° 2 FGBG 4276.AR 
7
 
 
3.77
rate
<< hide Compilation
Released Title Cat# Reviews Ratings Chart [?] Overall
1999 Appears on:Un Voyage En Progressif (Volume 2) [Various Artists - Labels - Musea Records] FGBG 4300.AR 
1
 
 
2.50
rate
2002 Tableau N° 1/Same FGBG 4407 
2
 
 
3.10
rate
2003 Appears on:Un Voyage En Progressif (Volume 8) [Various Artists - Labels - Musea Records] FGBG 4480.AR 
1
 
 
3.00
rate
.

  I haven't heard his third studio album (Tableau No. 2), but the first two makes him very worthy of inclusion.  I'd describe his music as Zeuhlish, funky, jazz-fusion, and with classical and symph music with some blues.  Very good.  I'm thinking Eclectic would be best based on those two albums

I wish there was a myspace page on him, but here are two pieces of his music on youtube --> CLICK HERE
Mindawn has Alarcen samples if you log-in.

Here's a review of the "boxset" release that included his first two albums: http://www.progressor.net/review/jeanpierre_alarcen_1978_1979.html

Perhaps he has already been proposed and I missed it, but this is fine French progressive rock.

Here is his web page (translated from French by google -- hopefully it opens for you, neither work in Firefox for me but do in Explorer): CLICK FOR ENGLISH and the original en francais  http://pagesperso-orange.fr/zuzudisco/Alarcen/alarmain.htm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2008 at 18:59

I have his 2 on 1 album as well as the Tableau no.2.Alarcen should be on PA big time.The first couple of albums showed him in an explorative mode,jazz,ambient,funky,latin,prog ect...all showed up on these releases while the Tableau no.2 is more symphonic music but not rock.More classical.

I wish he was in.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2008 at 23:06
Oh wow, not only got a response from someone who knows him, but knows those three albums!  Thanks for the response, The Rock.  I'm sure he will be in.  I have no doubts about his suitability for PA, and your knowledgeable post more than reinforces that.  Will just have some formalities to go through, and then preparing the bio etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2008 at 08:21
Originally posted by The Rock The Rock wrote:

I have his 2 on 1 album. Alarcen should be on PA big time.The first couple of albums showed him in an explorative mode,jazz,ambient,funky,latin,prog ect...

I wish he was in.



Not much more to add for me. Like Tableau no. 1 much more than the debut. On level with the best of the dark french symphonic releases from the same period. And that says a lot!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2008 at 08:31
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Oh wow, not only got a response from someone who knows him, but knows those three albums!  Thanks for the response, The Rock.  I'm sure he will be in.  I have no doubts about his suitability for PA, and your knowledgeable post more than reinforces that.  Will just have some formalities to go through, and then preparing the bio etc.
 
Hey there Logan,
 
Nice to see someone aknowledges my ''knowledgeable' post,as lately I've been seen as the ''bad guy''!Evil%20Smile
 
Looking forward to see Alarcen in.Was actually surprised he wasn't already in.Eden Rose should also be in.But not in the same entry as Alarcen,their music beign much less refined than his.As a matter of fact I think they would fit in the heavy prog,maybe even proto or at the verrrry least prog-related category.
 
Btw,I'm also trying to get a few bands in:Demon Fuzz,Dillinger,Elder Kindered and The New Age.Please go and see what their about,and don't hesitate to post your opinion.
 
Thanks.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2008 at 17:33

I'm surprised both are not in the Archives yet

 

 

YES for both.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2008 at 21:35
Thanks, y'all, for the comments.

Originally posted by The Rock The Rock wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Oh wow, not only got a response from someone who knows him, but knows those three albums!  Thanks for the response, The Rock.  I'm sure he will be in.  I have no doubts about his suitability for PA, and your knowledgeable post more than reinforces that.  Will just have some formalities to go through, and then preparing the bio etc.
 
Hey there Logan,
 
Nice to see someone aknowledges my ''knowledgeable' post,as lately I've been seen as the ''bad guy''!Evil%20Smile
 
Looking forward to see Alarcen in.Was actually surprised he wasn't already in.Eden Rose should also be in.But not in the same entry as Alarcen,their music beign much less refined than his.As a matter of fact I think they would fit in the heavy prog,maybe even proto or at the verrrry least prog-related category.
 
Btw,I'm also trying to get a few bands in:Demon Fuzz,Dillinger,Elder Kindered and The New Age.Please go and see what their about,and don't hesitate to post your opinion.
 
Thanks.
 


I agree with your feelings on Eden Rose.  It really has a proto feel to me (proto heavy prog ?).  Very Santanaish in parts.  Unrefined but enjoyable.

I have listened to at least three of those suggestions in the past (wait, I've listened to all of them -- except for maybe Eldered Kindred), but I don't remember what I've said, how much I've said or where I said it.  The New Age was rejected for Eclectic.  I'll have to look up those threads to refresh my memory, and will certainly comment on the music.

Thanks for all your insight!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2008 at 22:06
That's the problem here Logan, in the Master List rally we did last year (May 19), we treated specifically the case of Jean Pierre Alarcen and even left a hint, but seems nobody reads this recommendations, I'm sure many oif the artists we recopmmended for other genres, are still in the Master List:
 
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38137&KW=Symphonic

Hello, as I promised to Tony R, the Symphonic Team had an addition rally, have searched in the master list (Including Proposed and disputed artists) and this is what we got:

 

As expected we required a couple of weeks  to research, being that some of them are prehistoric and/or totally obscure, so info wasn’t be easily available and samples much less

 

 

  1. Jean Pierre Alarcen (France): Hard job to search, all the info about this guy is in French but somehow I managed with my rusty French and some info in English plus sanmples……Jean Pierre is a French guitar player who made his proggiest work with Sandrose, hio solo career is formed by three albums:

His eponymous album that is PURE JAZZ with some influences of Mc’Laughlin and Santana but not Prog

Tableau N° 1 (1978): It’s a Neo Classical suite of 75 minutes with some Neo Prog and Symph moments but not preeminent, again don’t mistake Neo Classical with Symphonic.

Tableau N° 2 (1998): A pure Rock meets Neo Classical, not Prog at all, sounds like Mahler or Debussy played at Rock style with metalish guitar.

Not Symphonic, maybe Neo Prog, maybe Jazz Fusion or  Prog Related.

 
Tony R: We kept our word with you.

 

Bob, HT, James, Iván
 
 
 
In that session we also added info about other non Symphonic bands suggested as Symphonic in the Master List:
 
  1. Clouds (UK/Scottia): Psyche
  2. Cem Karaca (Turkey): Folk
  3. Lake (UK): Maybe Prog Related
  4. Mandragora (UK): Psyche
  5. Mandragora (Argentina): Neo Prog
  6. Blackfeather: Psyche
  7. Help Yourself (UK): Folk
  8. Nell James (USA): Folk or Prog Related
  9. Sheshet: Art Rock or Fusion.

I'm almost sure the most part are still in the master list and very few checked what the Symphomnic Team researched, thanks God things are moving faster now with the new teams, but the info is there in  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38137&KW=Symphonic  to be checked.

Cheers.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 27 2008 at 22:09
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2008 at 03:26
  1. Jean Pierre Alarcen (France):

His eponymous album that is PURE JAZZ with some influences of Mc’Laughlin and Santana but not Prog .  If this is pure jazz, then almost every single band in jazzrock/fusion here is.

Tableau N° 1 (1978): It’s a Neo Classical suite of 75 minutes with some Neo Prog and Symph moments but not preeminent, again don’t mistake Neo Classical with Symphonic. ? Who  wrote this? This album lasts for ca. 41 and a half minutes. And its a quite typical instrumental symphonic prog album with jazzy bits. Using guitars, drums, keyboards, bass... regular rock instruments.


Here's a 10 min + youtube clip of the brilliant first track on his second album. Jean-Pierre Alarcen - Tableau No 1(Premier Mouvement)


And a youtubeclip of the first track on his debut Jean-Pierre Alarcen - Sambaba


Although Tableau no. 1 is closer to symphonic, all in all jazzrock/fusion is probably the most natural place for him in the archives.
         




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2008 at 13:58
Ivan, I don't agree with that evaluation (and as Rocktopus notes, that 75 minutes comment is wrong -- does that mean the total time for the "boxset" release that included the debut and follow-up albums?)

I will mention Alarcen to the jazz/ rock fusion team if they missed this thread.  His eponymous debut is not pure jazz (jazz purists would take offence at that comment ;)), but I certainly agree with Rocktopus that jazz-rock fusion dominates.

For the debut:

1. Sambala is latinesque jazz with melodic, soft music.
2. Salut Besson is jazz-fusion (possibly with a slight Magma influence).
3. Mon Amour, Mon Amour is Western Academic music.
4. Nationale (my favourite track) is funky Zeuhlish Jazz-Fusion (reminiscent of Zao).
5. Soir - rather ambient jazz-fusion
6. Viex Garcon - Western Academic Music

Incidentally, Ivan. the JR Fusion tem (Alucard specifically) did add your list to their team thread, see page 3 and other pages, but Alarcen, at least, was not evaluated from what I've seen at that time (at least not that time -- but I believe it might have been earlier).

It is very hard to keep track of suggestions and bands under evaluation (new dynamic charts would help greatly -- where members could input suggested bands too -- as well as being able to use the search to search in body of topics).

EDIT: As for Eden Rose: I noticed there's a little problem with the link before (easily correctable when clicked), but here's another anyway: http://www.myspace.com/edenroseband



Edited by Logan - March 28 2008 at 14:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2008 at 21:52
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Ivan, I don't agree with that evaluation (and as Rocktopus notes, that 75 minutes comment is wrong -- does that mean the total time for the "boxset" release that included the debut and follow-up albums?)
 
Yes, I have it on a CDR that lasts 75.35 minutes, sorry my mistake,  but the idea is there, we double checked the info, but for some reason this info got mixed, probably a typo.

I will mention Alarcen to the jazz/ rock fusion team if they missed this thread.  His eponymous debut is not pure jazz (jazz purists would take offence at that comment ;)), but I certainly agree with Rocktopus that jazz-rock fusion dominates.
 
 When I talk about pure Jazz in Prog Archives context, you have to study the circumstances, in those days Santana wasn't Prog and McLaughlin work was considered more oriented to Jazz than to Prog.
 
I believe the division between Jazz Prog Fusion and Jazz is very subtle in some cases, take Bitches Brew, it's not here, but I believe it should be,

For the debut:

1. Sambala is latinesque jazz with melodic, soft music.
2. Salut Besson is jazz-fusion (possibly with a slight Magma influence).
3. Mon Amour, Mon Amour is Western Academic music.
4. Nationale (my favourite track) is funky Zeuhlish Jazz-Fusion (reminiscent of Zao).
5. Soir - rather ambient jazz-fusion
6. Viex Garcon - Western Academic Music
 
You agree with me LOL; call it Jazz or Fusion (I hate the name Fusion, because it's limiting in the context of Jazz, Fusion is the blend of whatever 2 genres), we agree that the best place is Jazz Prog Fusion or whatever is called.

Incidentally, Ivan. the JR Fusion tem (Alucard specifically) did add your list to their team thread, see page 3 and other pages, but Alarcen, at least, was not evaluated from what I've seen at that time (at least not that time -- but I believe it might have been earlier).
 
The problem is that the system didn't worked, with Rivertree pushing us we have to deal faster, and that's good.

The point is that our team was asked by Tony R to check all the bands that were in the Master List as Symphonic, but to keep our word with him, we didn't only checeked the ones that belonged but also analyzed each and every band wrongly noted as Symphonic.

Even if Rocktopus doesn't agree with my analysis, it's better to have somebody searching a band that otherwise would had been forgotten.....But at the end, we agree, my recommendation is Fusion if you notice, just as Rocktopus, only that I add Neo Prog and Prog Related in case of rejection, because I can't force a team to accept a band.
 
Rocktopus wrote after using his always "subtle and nice" style:
Quote Although Tableau no. 1 is closer to symphonic, all in all jazzrock/fusion is probably the most natural place for him in the archives.
 
I wrote:
Quote Not Symphonic, maybe Neo Prog, maybe Jazz Fusion or  Prog Related.
 
A year ago, probably Alarcen would not had been accepted in Fusion, so I had to give alternatives.
 
We learned this in the cleaning of 2006, all the bands we rejected, as part of any team, bounced back to Symphonic, and that's a waste of time.

It is very hard to keep track of suggestions and bands under evaluation (new dynamic charts would help greatly -- where members could input suggested bands too -- as well as being able to use the search to search in body of topics).
 
Yes I agree, people don't understand how frustrating is to check 30 bands you haven't heard because they were noted as Symphonic, and find we can only add 2. But is even more frustrating to expend days (3 persons, because we checked in 3 cleaning sessions), a band like Lake, and see it bounce back to Symphonic, when it's  barely Prog Related if maybe too much.

Iván



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 28 2008 at 22:11
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2008 at 23:01
Understood... Mea culpa with calling it jazz-fusion, I meant to say jazz-rock -- a slip.  I did notice that you recommended it to the Fusion team and did post about in their team thread earlier today.  Though I agree that the dominant characteristics make the debut suitable for fusion, I wanted to say that some pieces are not jazz at all, that I recall ("Mon Amour" and "Vieux Garcon" -- hey my French is good enough to notice my typo earlier).  I'm still unsure about where is best when one considers the first album as well, which is very different.  And the last being something rather different again.  Although the Zeuhl influence I mention is a kind of jazz-fusion (this time jazz-fusion on purpose) in itself, I do think those Zeuhlish qualities with some other qualities plus the first Tableau makes Alarcen considerable for Eclectic, in my view.  Fusion is quite a good fit based on the debut...

I'm sure things have changed since then as the doors have been opened wider to music that would not be traditionally thought of as "Prog" (and even prog with a little p).  Oh, and Bitches Brew absolutely should be here, but the whole discography has presented some problems.

Oh, and I can imagine the frustration with the cleaning sessions you've been involved with.  Amazing work you've done, though.


Edited by Logan - March 28 2008 at 23:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 00:14
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Understood... Mea culpa with calling it jazz-fusion, I meant to say jazz-rock -- a slip.  I did notice that you recommended it to the Fusion team and did post about in their team thread earlier today.  Though I agree that the dominant characteristics make the debut suitable for fusion, I wanted to say that some pieces are not jazz at all, that I recall ("Mon Amour" and "Vieux Garcon" -- hey my French is good enough to notice my typo earlier).  I'm still unsure about where is best when one considers the first album as well, which is very different.  And the last being something rather different again.  Although the Zeuhl influence I mention is a kind of jazz-fusion (this time jazz-fusion on purpose) in itself, I do think those Zeuhlish qualities with some other qualities plus the first Tableau makes Alarcen considerable for Eclectic, in my view.  Fusion is quite a good fit based on the debut...
 
In my case, I try to be careful with recommendations, because I been burn more than once, so it's better to give more alternatives.

But yes, thedoors of Prog have been opened more.

I'm sure things have changed since then as the doors have been opened wider to music that would not be traditionally thought of as "Prog" (and even prog with a little p).  Oh, and Bitches Brew absolutely should be here, but the whole discography has presented some problems.

I agree with Miles early stuff, it's hadely Prog.

Oh, and I can imagine the frustration with the cleaning sessions you've been involved with.  Amazing work you've done, though.
 
Not too many, because when you enjoy what you do, it's hard to be frustrated, and all the past and actual members of the Team, have enjoyed this search, because it allows us to know more

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 17:15
I get all too easily frustrated... I had a struggle with a jar of pickled herring this morning, but it was worth it in the end. :)

Incidentally, I did add Alarcen to Eclectic (still have to edit and add some more info, but): ALARCEN, JEAN-PIERRE

EDIT: now that he's included, I notice two discussion topics on him from Suggest New Bands (I searched with all dates specified before since it's old enough that it wouldn't show up perhaps it just timed out as my computer runs slow -- search finds it now): DOH, that would have aided the discussion and maybe made the addition a little easier.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20450&FID=1




Edited by Logan - March 29 2008 at 19:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 31 2009 at 13:48

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

That's the problem here Logan, in the Master List rally we did last year (May 19), we treated specifically the case of Jean Pierre Alarcen and even left a hint, but seems nobody reads this recommendations, I'm sure many oif the artists we recopmmended for other genres, are still in the Master List:
 
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38137&KW=Symphonic

Hello, as I promised to Tony R, the Symphonic Team had an addition rally, have searched in the master list (Including Proposed and disputed artists) and this is what we got:

 

As expected we required a couple of weeks  to research, being that some of them are prehistoric and/or totally obscure, so info wasn’t be easily available and samples much less

 

 

  1. Jean Pierre Alarcen (France): Hard job to search, all the info about this guy is in French but somehow I managed with my rusty French and some info in English plus sanmples……Jean Pierre is a French guitar player who made his proggiest work with Sandrose, hio solo career is formed by three albums:

His eponymous album that is PURE JAZZ with some influences of Mc’Laughlin and Santana but not Prog

Tableau N° 1 (1978): It’s a Neo Classical suite of 75 minutes with some Neo Prog and Symph moments but not preeminent, again don’t mistake Neo Classical with Symphonic.

Tableau N° 2 (1998): A pure Rock meets Neo Classical, not Prog at all, sounds like Mahler or Debussy played at Rock style with metalish guitar.

Not Symphonic, maybe Neo Prog, maybe Jazz Fusion or  Prog Related.

 
Tony R: We kept our word with you.

 

Bob, HT, James, Iván
 
 
 
In that session we also added info about other non Symphonic bands suggested as Symphonic in the Master List:
 
  1. Clouds (UK/Scottia): Psyche
  2. Cem Karaca (Turkey): Folk
  3. Lake (UK): Maybe Prog Related
  4. Mandragora (UK): Psyche
  5. Mandragora (Argentina): Neo Prog
  6. Blackfeather: Psyche
  7. Help Yourself (UK): Folk
  8. Nell James (USA): Folk or Prog Related
  9. Sheshet: Art Rock or Fusion.

I'm almost sure the most part are still in the master list and very few checked what the Symphomnic Team researched, thanks God things are moving faster now with the new teams, but the info is there in  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38137&KW=Symphonic  to be checked.

Cheers.
 
Iván



So if you listen the Cem Karaca songs you can say about something about them ... so yes he had got Symphonic band (Apaşlar) but it was really an earlier band .. so listen the links .. so it was the best progressive band of turkey ... Cem Karaca/ Dervisan

CEM KARACA (APAŞLAR,KARDAŞLAR, DERVİŞAN, EDİRDAHAN)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcL4XFy1Or8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw-V5z_bxC8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtGpYYyGOkI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX4PmEQdYpQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1LsnkRPcRE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK1LF5i75X8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi6etjc3MFo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwONIty-ws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwsTp_-7Z4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLUgj_j0J28
Turkish (Anatolian) Progressive Psychedelic Ethnical Rock
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