Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Suggest New Bands and Artists
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Michel Altmayer (Magma-Related)
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedMichel Altmayer (Magma-Related)

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 22525
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Michel Altmayer (Magma-Related)
    Posted: March 28 2008 at 18:25
I've mentioned Michel Altmayer's Troll a number of times over the last months in posts, but hadn't started a Suggestion topic on him.  I'm sure this project must have been discussed before in teams (I know many must be aware of this), but he's not in the archives.  He's the guy in Longshot, eh, uggh, and also played drums with Atoll (on Illian).

It's a Zeuhl-related project -- very influenced by Magma but not as good.

From http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/ZEUHL-intro.html

Quote One band that was heavily influenced by the Magma sound in the early eighties was Troll, which featured drummer Michael Altmayer, violist Nathalie Basset, and bassist/guitarist Jean-Pascal Boffo. During their prime period (81-84), they had no releases, and the only evidence from that period are two live demo cassettes. In the mid-eighties Boffo left to launch his solo career, taking some of the original Troll repertoire with him. A new, studio version of Troll was put together by Altmayer and Basset in 1986, and an album was recorded with the participation of many ex-members of Magma, including Stella Vander, Klaus Blasquiz, Bernard Paganotti, Francis Moze, and Alain and Yvon Guillard. An album (LP) was recorded, and released by Musea in `88. This album contains several outstanding tracks (plus a few that are not so spectacular), and is another worthy of interest.


See New Gibralta Encyclopaedia... http://www.gepr.net/aa.html#ALTMAYER

Originally posted by Dave Wayne Dave Wayne wrote:


Troll, Vol. 2 (88) Review

Altmayer was the drummer, singer (and leader) of the legendary French zeuhl band Troll, which also included Jean Pascal Boffo on guitars, and featured a strong Magma influence. Unfortunately, that edition of the band disbanded before ever recording. This one is (to my knowledge) Troll's only recording from 1987, and features Violin by Nathalie Basset, Bass by Bernard Paganotti, and Vocals by Klaus Blasquiz and Stella Vander, as well as other musicians. Altmater's Drums and Paganotti's monster Bass dominate, and tracks like "Igor" and "Breakdown" show just how brilliant these two guys are. On "Ankh - Carousel Celeste" BP demonstrates his chops on the chapman stick, and two tracks "Impressions for Tomorrow" and "Some Words about 'Trane" owe strong homage to John Coltrane. The album is split between vocal and instrumental tracks. The vocals (in English) are outstanding; this is one of the best releases Musea ever put out.

Very Magma-influenced, almost self-consciously so, though with somewhat more pronounced jazz & fusion leanings. Altmeyer, like Christian Vander, is a drummer / vocalist / keyboardist. He's quite a good drummer, but not as wonderful as Vander (natch!). Altmeyer's band on Troll, Vol. 2 includes several Magma-ites: Guy Khalifa (keys), Bernard Paganotti (bass), Stella Vander (vocals), and Klaus Blasquiz (voice) all figure prominently. Despite all the Magma cred, Troll Volume 2 is not a very successful LP. The high quality of the 2 instrumental tracks (very jazzy in a largely acoustic Return to Coltrane sort of way) made it difficult for me to wade through the rest of the LP which is dominated by French pop-fusion with lots of vocals. These tracks range from decent Magma-inspired minor key romps (which sound rather like Bernard Paganotti's solo project, Paga) to really lame romantic soft pop. Altmeyer's emotive crooning is really hard for me to stomach - it's as if he thinks he's Tom Jones or something! After listening to this a few times, I would say that Altmeyer's Troll, Vol. 2 is for Zeuhl completists only. -- Dave Wayne


Here's a 2006 discussion where Yukorin mentions Troll:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26915&OB=DESC

Here's the Troll myspace page for him... http://www.myspace.com/trollwelcomerecords
That re-edition sounds a little different from mine (and considerably MORE hardcore Zeuhl and better from those tracks, as Troll Vol 2 is a mix -- which includes similar stuff to Vander's light swingy, smiley music and poppy pap).

I should get that homage albums, Hamtai, at some time.

EDIT: Anyway, sort of Zeuhl-Crossover if you will.  please let me know what you think even if you don't know what to think.


Edited by Logan - March 28 2008 at 19:55
Feel free to speak your mind, but mind your speech.
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 22525
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2008 at 14:45
Zeuhl/ Avant team is evaluating it, but I want to bump it for any Zeuhl (and Zeuhl -related) freaks, though there's much better Zeuhl like Noa to discover.
Feel free to speak your mind, but mind your speech.
Back to Top
Grimfurg View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 19 2008
Location: Cairo
Status: Offline
Points: 265
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2009 at 16:30
BUMP

Honestly, I think Troll is a big Magma rip off.

Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31164
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2009 at 02:45
I'll take a listen to this later today - can't imagine why Troll can't be included - even if it's bad zeuhl and a ripoff, it needs to be here
Back to Top
fusionfreak View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: August 23 2007
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 1317
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2009 at 08:53
Bump,nice but I prefer  Magma(their concert in Brest is in 72 days)
I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world

of searchers with the help from

crimson king
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31164
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2009 at 10:29
I'm listening and sort of don't know what to make of this.  Confused
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 22525
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2009 at 13:13
Talk about a resurrection of an old suggestion/ evaluation of a project that's better of being obscure. ;)  For Zeuhl-universe completists only....

I described it as Zeuhl-crossover/ Magma inspired.  It's Zeuhl-lite.  Troll Vol. 2 (don't bother looking for a Vol. 1) is a mostly bad album (I like it best when it's most into Vander/ Magma rip-off territory).  Rather a waste of talent from the Magma alumni, imo.  It has its moments, though.  I quite like the instrumentals like "Ankh" and "Ud ior..."  "Break Down" is not bad (rather Weidorje/ Pagaish).  The chorale vocals can be quite good.   It's often thought to be a really bad album in the Magma-inspired universe, but not altogether bad.  I think the album can sound like more of a Magma rip-off still because of the shared personnel, but very Magma inspired (though a weaker jazz-fusion version with poor '80s stylings).

I prefer what Troll did for Hamtai: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=19795


Edited by Logan - January 09 2009 at 13:15
Feel free to speak your mind, but mind your speech.
Back to Top
Grimfurg View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 19 2008
Location: Cairo
Status: Offline
Points: 265
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2009 at 14:07
Yes I admit, that cover is great.  But like, Ankh is mostly a bad version of Zess, Break Down has riffs that sound tooo much like De Futura, Some Words About Trane is just like Otis!
I mean seriously they're good, AMAZING line-up, but Altmayer just needs to stop copying Magma's stuff. Honestly I actually like the Merci/Offering period.

But just like NaturalScience I just really don't know what to think of this, I like and acknowledge the origniality of the first song "Igor...".

Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 22525
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2009 at 14:03
You're right, it is too derivative.  Igor is an interesting one -- part pop with chamber rock, Zao leanings.  I really hear Zao's Osiris album in that.
Feel free to speak your mind, but mind your speech.
Back to Top
Earth View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: February 22 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2009 at 10:44
Hello, my name is Marc, I'm living in France. I was searching links about Michel Altmayer and Troll on google and I've found this forum. Living not so far than him,  I met Michel Altmayer a lot of times. I just can say he is a wonderful guy, loving music and the accusation of copying magma is not possible at his level. If it was true, the musicians of magma playing on the album would not have accepted to play on it. Christian Vander himself uses parts of Pharoah Sanders music with Offering, parts of Carl Orff in MDK. It's not a reason to consider the magma music as copy. Michel Altmayer works for zeuhl music since 1977, teaching drumming, inviting Magma for a lot of concerts in the east of France...Thanks to him, a lot of french people discovered the Zeuhl music, don't forget that. He founded Welcome Records with "Hamtaļ!", a tribute to the music of Christian Vander. He is closed to the leader of Magma. Stop to make references to one or another (you hear Zao when you are listening to "Igor"? just because there is a string trio??? You hear Top basslines when Bernard Paganotti plays bass? Breakdown is a modal jazz-rock track with a non-conventional drums playing, but it's far from de futura!!! Be serious. Last time I met M.A.(in summer 2008), it was in the baal productions studio, during a recording session for the new album. I can say you will be surprised by the music when the cd will be available! The sound is really enormous, with an incredible powerful drumsound. The music, still in the zeuhl vein, is completely released from the influence of Magma. The composition I've listened to is a long piece of more than 20 mn. Sometimes I had the impression to hear a metal-prog band with complex architectural parts. M.A. said to me that the composition was written in 1977, with new material composed in 2008...I also heard the reissue of Vol.2 with new mix and new mastering, with the 2 bonus tracks. It sounds greater than the lp. Some details appears on the cd and were curiously absent on the lp version (or very confused). I hope the reissue and the new album will be available in 2009. Troll has also a lot of touring projects in Japan, Norway, Sweden. Thanks for reading me (I hope my english is not too bad!)
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 22525
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2009 at 12:08
Sorry for being overly harsh, Marc.  Methinks I was jumping on a bandwagon too much.  Michel Altmayer has done a lot for music and Zeuhl, and Welcome Records is excellent..  I was partially bolstering the case for the inclusion by mentioning rather derivative qualities (as I sometimes say here, if a band/ artist is seen as derivative/ heavily influenced by, then it has a better chance at getting into the archives). Also, when one really looks for similarities they become more apparent and can seem closer to rip-off territory than influenced by territory. 

Rip-off was too strong a word (and one I'm usually careful to avoid) and I apologise for that.  Heck, I've mentioned strong similarities here that no one else has commented on, or have dismissed.  I'm an associator.  For instance, I recently added a band called Chrome Hoof and think that has more derivative Magma qualities than Troll.  I've even complained that Magma was too derivative in the past.  I was originally put off MDK because I felt it had too many similarities to Carmina Burana (love Carmina Burana), but I changed my tune.  It's influenced by and builds on it (just as Vander was influenced by Coltrane... and Stockhausen etc.).  music is influenced by earlier music, that's a way music progresses. Some say that Eskaton is a Magma rip-off, but I wouldn't.  Of course there are similarities, and Magma is an influence.  I'm sure that Altmayer was inspired by some of the same sources that Vander is, and you're right, there wouldn't be that relationship if Altmayer was plagiarising Magma.  I do like Troll, but was more negative due to some disparaging remarks I've heard about it partially to potentially save face.  Like I said, the album can sound more like a rip-off due to shared personelle.... In other words, one is hearing those musicians' styles in both.

In terms of me finding Zao's Osiris similar to "Igor", I don't remember if it was "Isis" or "Shardaz", ("Shardaz" I believe) that it particularly reminded me of in part, but it wasn't because of a string trio (that would be what made me say that it has chamber rock stylings) as certain notes.  I didn't mean that it was derivative of that track.  I think it was the little bit at 1:30 and 2:40 in "Igor" particularly and a more general feeling.  Compare it to, say, 4:16 in "Shardaz".  Even if similar to my ears (and I hear a lot of music that has similarities to "Shardaz" to my ears -- maybe because it's one of my favourite tracks -- it doesn't make it a rip-off).

Anyway, welcome aboard, and thanks for the post,  Sorry again for disparaging remarks.  And I don't think of that piece as a De Futura rip-off either. It has similarities; sure.  It even shares notes! (little joke)

And your English is excellent; far, far better than my French which I used to write quite well.

-Greg

EDIT General note to teams: to get this moving forward, perhaps it's about time that I mentioned this Magma-related project to Crossover.  Here's the ratingfreak listing (I added it there eleven months ago). Michel AltmayerMyspace.com Then again, it would make more sense to wait for the new album.


Edited by Logan - February 22 2009 at 12:24
Feel free to speak your mind, but mind your speech.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.117 seconds.

Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.