Transatlantic Virus

Okay, add The Tangent to my list of complaints:

wikipedia wrote: ....n 2002 by keyboardists Andy Tillison and Sam Baine of Parallel or 90 Degrees and Flower Kings guitarist Roine Stolt, bassist Jonas Reingold, and drummer Zoltan Csörsz.

Oh god! Roine Stolt ruins music!

You misunderstood my comments.

I can quite happily live with any amount of outside influences in music, its the tag 'progressive' that I think is wrong, it probably always was. There are probably very few truly progressive bands around that take music to another level, most of those would be found in the true (eventualy mainstream) pop culture.....rap, reggae, soul, hiphop, dance etc, metal. Those influences find their way into 'progressive' bands, so you have to wonder what is truly progressive. I would suggest (and interviews with band members back this up) that most 'prog' bands regard themselves as simply 'rock'.

Your assertion that progressive bands borrow from the past can hardly be seen as innovative which is exactly my point........borrowing from the past is regressive. It is why these bands all have similar elements without one strong theme emerging, its the theme that is innovative.

Classicals heyday might be over but the classical music scene is far from dead........and its not my particular interest either. Take a look through the contemporary classic releases over the last few years, the music is pretty challenging !!

Again, remember I listen and love Tool, DT,Riverside, Opeth and cut my teeth in the heyday of prog which I lived and breathed.......ELP, Amon Duul, KC,VDG,PF,Genesis,PFM,Gentle Giant,Pete Sinfield,Yes,Nice,Moody Blues Hawkwind, BackDoor and many others. That was the days when  'progressive' was tabbed and back then it was a springboard from the bands of the day, the sound was different. These days that sound has simply been welded to other genres and though it is interesting its far from new......ie progressive.

This is an interesting thread. It makes sense to me.

A know a classical composer who has listened to various bits of prog.....from ELP,Yes,Crimson,Tool,PF,DT..............he states, "its not proper music, its just an overlong pop song, or a combination of seperate songs bolted together, it doesn't go anywhere, just one big jam". I didn't understand that comment at the time.

That seems to be the essence of it........prog is just a re-hash of other music styles bolted togeter........thats why this thread exists. These bands are not progressive at all !

The real innovation is in the 3 minute pop song, not just the one you hear on the radio, the underground stuff, otherwise only classical music is really is progressive.

Thats not to stop anyone enjoying prog, immerse and enjoy I say and be aware that the lack of true progression is actually the nature of prog..........its actually regressive music. When metal bands happened then progsters welded that modern sound into the musical tapestry and continue to weld more bits as they become popular in the mainstream

Transatlantic, though not groundbreaking, produced some of progressive's most memorable music in the past 10 years, in my opinion. What you have is sturdy prog music that stands the test of time. Then again, I'm not one of these over-thinkers who has to find meaning in every guitar chord or tom fill. I simply like what I hear.

The comments about Marillion simply slay me (as many of you could surmise). This band is constantly re-inventing themselves and trying new things to keep their music fresh. There's nothing stagnant or complacent about Marillion. The critique strikes me as being preconceived and ill-informed, but it shouldn't take away from what the band has done to re-establish themselves in the past 8 years.

I think it's abundantly clear that Marbles became one of Marillion's best...including anything from the previous administration. It's music that I haven't heard previously and many consider it a masterpiece. If people didn't "get it", then that's not Marillion's fault.

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Oh I like the Transatlantic albums, don't get me wrong!  Am less enthused about Neal Morse's solo output, though- he's another one that seems to be repeating himself now IMHO.

Nice one Salmacis, well said!

fuxi wrote: If I can add my two cents, it's worth listening to BANTAM TO BEHEMOTH by Birds and Buildings, the latest project of Dan Britton (keyboard virtuoso behind Deluge Grander): ambitious, highly inventive prog, predominantly instrumental and with all the restless fury of "The Gates of Delirium". I mean, let bands like Spock's Beard or Marillion compromise as much as they want to (IF that really is what they're doing), there still are first-rate North American bands out there, taking ideas from classic British prog to new levels!

DJPuffyLemon wrote: CCVP wrote: I think that you got it by the wrong approach. Instead of saying that this is the "Transatlantic Syndrome", you should call it "damn, we are too tired and way too old to write something interesting, so lets destroy everything we already did and make some horrible music". In the Flower Kings case, i disagree. Stolt keep making his music as he always did but with more freedom to write whatever he wants to Dude you are like the first to agree.   Important point with the kings. I don't know about them so I'll take your word for it and made power to them if that's what's up.

Maybe its because i am the only one here that shares your view of things that, after a wile (in DT's case that have been 20 years for Christ sake, and here i mean that they have been making good albums until Octavarium, but i really believe that Systematic was some kind of "accident"), people just run out of ideas and then go to some side that may be unwanted by the fans (like Metallica sadly did ).

In Marillion's case i think that the band is incredible mediocre without Fish and Fish's solo career is not that good also, in the matter of making masterpieces like he did back in the 80's.

Another thing: i really think that bridge across forever is better (please read here more balanced and "complete") than stmpe. All of the above is a masterpiece for itself, but the rest of the album just ruined it from being a masterpiece . Bridge across forever album is not as mindblowing as stmpe's all of the above, but the balance to me puts bridge across forever above all of the above.

chessman wrote: I appreciate others like them, but they are not for me. Give me something that sounds old anyday!

Try talking to my grand grandmother. She is almost 100 and sound as old as hell.

DJPuffyLemon wrote: There's a few bands these days that have what I call the Transatlantic Virus so-called because Transatlantic is a compilation of members of Spock's Beard, The Flower Kings, and Marillion, all of whom have this problem (Dream Theater occasionally does this too but in a different way, I'll get to that later.) Spock's Beard and The Flower Kings have many influences with 70s classic era prog rock. Unfortunately, it really sounds like they have no ideas of their own. Don't get me wrong, the bands have a unique edge on their sound but they have too many pop songs (which sounds like an attempt to commercialize) and many prog songs don't have unique arrangements, at least, SB doesn't I haven't heard as much Flower Kings as I'd like.   Marillion, which started out as a very innovative neo-prog band, has started to sound like they have this problem too. Especially with Marbles, which has many pop songs and really doesn't have any new ideas. Dream Theater is a bit different because they are metal, but lately (with Systematic Chaos) it sounds like they have started to immitate the bands that immitate the sound they've themselves created. Again, it doesn't appy as much to DT but they're also running out of ideas and trying to become more commercialized.   So...what you guys think?

I think that you got it by the wrong approach. Instead of saying that this is the "Transatlantic Syndrome", you should call it "damn, we are too tired and way too old to write something interesting, so lets destroy everything we already did and make some horrible music".

this virus is wildly spread in musical business. Look at Metallica, Iron Maiden, SB (after Morse's departure), Marillion (after Fish's departure), DT (after they wanted to make a lot money and have poser fans instead of not so much money and some few tr00 hardcore fans). In the Flower Kings case, i disagree. Stolt keep making his music as he always did but with more freedom to write whatever he wants to (since he rules over the FK like God itself over the universe), so if there are more pop rock, its because he is writing more about what he also likes and not what the audience likes. I feel that Stolt is right now doing this: "i am going to record this album. if it sells ok and if it don't ok also, cuz i am doing what i want"


Edited by CCVP - April 01 2008 at 17:00