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Topic ClosedStrawberry Fields Forever Progressive Rock?

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Poll Question: Strawberry Fields Forever Progressive Rock?
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Beckham View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Strawberry Fields Forever Progressive Rock?
    Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:52
Strawberry Fields Forever Progressive Rock? Well I put yes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:57
When will psychedelic pop/rock stop being confused with progressive rock? (And folks know my opinion of the term proto-prog). 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 13:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 13:12
It was the egg if not quite the chicken.  The big albums of 67 were the foreplay. 
oh yeah




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 15:28
of course not, the fact that the Beatles were geniuses didn't make them prog rock..  'Prog' didn't really exist when Fields was released in 1967, Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack comes out that year   ..Psych and Prog are certainly related but become quite distinct by about '69


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:06
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Apparently it is.  Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=13081


Certainly wasn't at the time of release
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:10
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Apparently it is.  Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=13081


just cause someone covers it don't make it prog




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:47
I believe Strawberry fields was written by the Beatles?


Oh go ask Robert Fripp this silly question and you will get the obvious answer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 20:58
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Apparently it is.  Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=13081


Certainly wasn't at the time of release

 
Hmmm,  it's close  Psych-pop -with  avant symphonic moments a genre of it's own in the way I am the Walrus shares those same qualities.  Jeff Lynne and Can both based their career on this very song called I Am the Walrus. I don't know if even Zappa was making music like this. I would not put the song down Mr. Heath
 
A Day In the Life-  Sorry Mr. Heath this is progressive rock in my book  the drumming very complex. The Bass and piano sound is very inventive. The orchestra, the final chord at the end, also tack on the hidden track
Benefit of Mr, Kite.- IMO is progressive rock the samples on this song make it sounds like a synth. The drumming is solid,  great bass and a electroacoustic solo 
Within You Without You- This song could be called Indian Prog in my opinion.
 
 
These three songs are unlike any songs I have heard in rock music. They are certainly not overrated in my book.


Edited by Rank1 - April 02 2008 at 21:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2008 at 21:05
Originally posted by Rank1 Rank1 wrote:

A Day In the Life-  Sorry Mr. Heath this is progressive rock in my book  the drumming very complex. The Bass and piano sound is very inventive. The orchestra, the final chord at the end, also tack on the hidden track
Benefit of Mr, Kite.- IMO is progressive rock the samples on this song make it sounds like a synth. The drumming is solid,  great bass and a electroacoustic solo 


A Day in the Life was a progression of what the band had been doing for years, as was Mr Kite, but to call it progressive rock is a bit like calling Cream heavy metal
 
Originally posted by Rank1 Rank1 wrote:


These three songs are unlike any songs I have heard in rock music. They are certainly not overrated in my book.


who said anything about overrated?





Edited by Atavachron - April 02 2008 at 21:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2008 at 01:57
it all depends on how you define "progressive rock". my definition seems to vary slightly from the definition of the archives. songs like "Strawberry Fields Forever" or "I am the Walrus" are without any doubt prog songs. that there are other songs on the album they appear on which don't quite fit the definition doesn't change it a bit. if you question that these songs are prog you might as well question if a song like "I talk to the Wind" is prog. actually if I was forced to declare either "Strawberry Fields" or "I talk to the Wind" as prog and were only allowed to choose one of them my vote would go to "Strawberry Fields"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2008 at 02:04
I've always questioned whether 'I Talk to the Wind' is a prog song..   mainly because it's a kitsch GG&F pop tune that happens to be on a record many consider to be the first prog work


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2008 at 02:38
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I've always questioned whether 'I Talk to the Wind' is a prog song..   mainly because it's a kitsch GG&F pop tune that happens to be on a record many consider to be the first prog work

oh, don't get me wrong; i really like the song. sure, there is a bit of kitsch to it, but the flute is simply beautiful

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2008 at 13:30
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I've always questioned whether 'I Talk to the Wind' is a prog song..   mainly because it's a kitsch GG&F pop tune that happens to be on a record many consider to be the first prog work

oh, don't get me wrong; i really like the song. sure, there is a bit of kitsch to it, but the flute is simply beautiful
 
 
It is the atmosphere and the concept, Prog did not have to be that complicated back then, it is why it was so genuine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2008 at 13:34
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Apparently it is.  Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=13081


Certainly wasn't at the time of release


Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:


just cause someone covers it don't make it prog


It was a joke, people.  Lighten up already!  Yeesh.  Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2008 at 13:40
Originally posted by reality reality wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I've always questioned whether 'I Talk to the Wind' is a prog song..   mainly because it's a kitsch GG&F pop tune that happens to be on a record many consider to be the first prog work

oh, don't get me wrong; i really like the song. sure, there is a bit of kitsch to it, but the flute is simply beautiful
 
 
It is the atmosphere and the concept, Prog did not have to be that complicated back then, it is why it was so genuine.
 
Actually prog was more complicated compared with what had gone before back then, hence many albums now called prog classics, in fact did fall short at supplying two full sides of progressive music. I and others won't count Yes's first two albums as real classic prog - and indeed the inclusion of The Clap on their third album (often considered to be their first to demonstrate classical prog creditials) means even this is not quite there. Ditto Jethro Tull's second album with it blues rock tracks. And so on.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2008 at 16:41
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by reality reality wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I've always questioned whether 'I Talk to the Wind' is a prog song..   mainly because it's a kitsch GG&F pop tune that happens to be on a record many consider to be the first prog work

oh, don't get me wrong; i really like the song. sure, there is a bit of kitsch to it, but the flute is simply beautiful
 
 
It is the atmosphere and the concept, Prog did not have to be that complicated back then, it is why it was so genuine.
 
Actually prog was more complicated compared with what had gone before back then, hence many albums now called prog classics, in fact did fall short at supplying two full sides of progressive music. I and others won't count Yes's first two albums as real classic prog - and indeed the inclusion of The Clap on their third album (often considered to be their first to demonstrate classical prog creditials) means even this is not quite there. Ditto Jethro Tull's second album with it blues rock tracks. And so on.


exactly... we can rewrite history if we want, but is it really helpful?




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2008 at 01:44
being an historian myself I always view music in its historical context. the term "progressive rock" did not exist back then or was at least not used commonly (an alternative name that was occasionally used in the beginning was "future rock", for example). the bands thermselves did not bother about these labels at all. this is probably the reason why my concept of "progressive rock" is not identical with the definition of most others. the Doors, for example, are a full prog band for me and not only "proto-prog", but this only makes sense through the spectacles of an historian. who knows how the Doors might have progressed (sic!) had Morrison survived? for their time the Doors were extremely progressive

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2008 at 02:06
but I don't see how the Doors were any more progressive - or 'Prog' for that matter - than Airplane, the Byrds or Hendrix-- in other words, all creative pop artists with blues and psych foundations (and all American BTW which would put them out of the Anglo-European prog loop.. sorry, but that's relevant)    ..Psych was a forebear to Prog but to confuse them is to discount the existence of pop culture and its music at the time






 

Edited by Atavachron - April 04 2008 at 02:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2008 at 03:20
I certainly agree that the European approach to rock definitely added something to it that had not been there before. but take a look at the first albums of bands like Genesis, Yes or even Gentle Giant; they are not much more either. certainly Gentle Giant already added special their flavor of vocal arrangements on the first album already, and the broad scope of instruments being used is unusual, but compositionally nothing much really happens (interestingly Gentle Giant never really broke up the pattern of verse-chorus-instrumental mid-section-chorus and the slight variations upon this, however complex their arrangements may have been, which probably is the reason they never had an epic). the only really radical approaches at that time came from Kraut and the French rock scene.
which raises the question: what is this thing we call "progressive" in progressive rock? one thing certainly is the broader harmonic approach of it; prog broke up the standard chord patterns. the use of unusual time signatures is another thing but should not be overrated; most prog songs still are in 4/4, 3/4 or 6/8 (of course there are divisions of prog like math rock that deliberately break this rule).
interestingly the "verse - chorus" pattern which I mentioned before is still the basic foundation of much of prog (I am tempted to say "most" instead of "much" even). not that there is anything wrong with it - it is a good and solid foundation

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