Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Blogs
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - What Happened To You?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhat Happened To You?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12546
Direct Link To This Post Topic: What Happened To You?
    Posted: April 25 2008 at 13:25

I dug out a 1980 recording and release last weekend, by the British band Random Hold, The View From Here (released on Polydor Records), and played it for the first time in a very long time. The point was to transfer the first track What Happened on to my I-Pod. However, it was inevitable that I listened to the whole and eventually transferred the complete record onto CD, as a more convenient format.

 

I was reminded what brought me to buy this album in 1980, when funds were particularly tight. First it was reading that former member of  Quiet Sun/Matching Mole/Phil Manzanera, Bill MacCormick was playing bass. Second, no doubt hearing the said What Happened played on the radio, and this appealing having a certain new proggie thing about it. Unfortunately I discovered after purchase the rest of album didn't appeal as much, therefore to unplayed for long periods. Some 28 years later, my lack of familiarity with most of the album seems to have now made the whole far more appealing. However, one thing that still didn't click is the vocalist, calling himself (in the vernacular of the punk/post-punk period) Random Hold!! Trying to make comparisons, I would have said Random Hold vocally was a cross between David Sylvian and John Rotten, with the emphasis on the less pleasant aspects of those two vocalists' styles. And being reacquainted with their studio recorded music after so long, the band Random Hold sound now like they were holding back, employing simple keyboard riffs, not letting solos continue for too long i.e. avoiding being prog - although Mr MacCormick was left with plenty of space (recognisable from his outings on  solo Phil Manzanera albums).

 

Now to the point and the title of this thread. Random Hold recorded/released - and seeing there is a CD with live tracks - also touring in 1980. 1980: post punk, new wave whilst prog rock is ignored or blasted by the UK media. Here you have jobbing musicians wanting to survive. So may I argue the likes of Bill MacCormick and many other musicians first known in prog field, must have felt  they had been cut a drift and in a hostile environment, where music is expected to be more simple than the mid 70's? Which lead to music which had some disguised complexity but a thick veneer of simple chord structures, simple playing, less attractive lead vocals and ultimately a music which is now stuck in the 80's?

 

Well of course those prog rock bands that did survive, either by disappearing underground or taking up temporary residence in the USA, changed as well. 80's  King Crimson wasn't the same as the Red-period Krimson. Yes got simplified -  e.g. lost the metaphysical lyrics etc. Genesis simplified in aiming at the hit charts and so became stadium rock.

 

Talking with Jakko Jakczyk last year, I asked him specifically about forming and then trying to survive as a jazz rock band in 79/80. You didn't last long - and you were forced to compromise before the band members went their separate ways (Jakko's 64 Spoons' compilation of studio and live material Landing on A Rat Column, reveals a band forced to compromise be it in a very entertaining way). And then Jakko's next band with Dave Stewart, the very Canterbury Rapid Eye Movement, couldn't get a record deal. Similarly Jack Bruce/Jon Hiseman/Allan Holdsworth recorded a 30 minute demo (aka The Sherwood Forest Tapes) of jazz fusion and blues rock, and couldn't find a taker in the record industry for what was considered last year's music.

 

Recently I caught an interview with a couple of the keyboard players of popular dance-electronica bands of the 80's e.g. Human League. They said that they discovered playing guitar to the standard of many prog players was impossible. However, keyboards had become massively cheaper and affordable through the 70's and with the increasing numbers of effects on board, a keyboardist didn't have to have to anything like the skills of Rick Wakeman. Indeed using 2 fingers and sequencer + somebody playing a simple beat on a drum kit or a drum machine, they could produce music which appealed to the masses crammed into a dance hall .

 

Hence mass-consumed music of the 80's from one point of view was simpler but played on more complex (but cheap) instruments. Therefore former prog musicians were forced in some  sea-change diluting their performances or drown. Interesting to note, musicians labelled punk or had jumped on the punk band wagon, became a tad more sophisticated, e.g. Stranglers, Police, Squeeze, Joe Jackson.

 

And what doesn't fit in to my argument is the neo-prog of Marillion and later It Bites. Is this down to the apparent familiarity of neo-prog band's music - so less of challenge of trying something really new, or is it that combined with the hit charts being targeted with shorter songs by these bands than those which their album-oriented predecessors produced?

The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31123
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2008 at 14:08
This reminds me of the rather depressing tales in Dave Stewart's excellent liner notes in the National Health Complete 2 CD set - namely he concluded that as much as he wanted the type of music we all know and love as prog to flourish, that sort of complex, time-shifting music was basically dead on arrival at the end of the 70s and into the 1980s.  What you describe as happening with MacCormick makes sense if these players wanted to remain in the music industry - adapt, or quit.  
PROG ROCK SUCKS IT DIED A LONG TIME AGO AND WILL NEVER COME BACK. ALL OF YOU OLD ASS MOTHERf**kERS GET A LIFE
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37286
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2008 at 19:27
There is even more of a Prog link to Random Hold than just Bill MacCormick, Peter Hammill produced their first album (a fretful and unhappy event for both parties by accounts) and guitarist David Rhodes is probably more recognisable from his work as Peter Gabriel's guitarist. They toured with Peter Gabriel and XTC in the 80s, I happened to see them a couple of times on both tours and bought albums and 12" singles on the strength of what I'd heard played live. As I recall, the vocalist was listed as Random Hold because three people shared the vocals (David's Rhodes and Ferguson and Bill MacCormick). Musically there were *a little* off from being simple and new-wavy, they were quite dark and morose when pop music was heading more upbeat, poppy and synth-driven - more like the Comsat Angels and The Sound than XTC, Squeeze or The Europeans, (note the sly slipping in of a Marillion connection Wink) There's a good potted history of RH on Phil Manz's website http://www.manzanera.com/index.htm 
 
Anyway, back to the topic Wink Phil Manzanera, along with Andy Mackay went down a similar path of making shorter, but still not-quite-pop songs in the mid-80s with The Explorers, featuring a little-known vocalist called James Wraith (who had a remarkably Ferryesque vocal style) - there is a live album available that shows what an amazingly good band they were - but they also failed to gain any commercial success.
 
/edit: Another Prog band that did a complete style and image change was After The Fire - probably only remembered now as AFT for 80s new-wave synth-pop hits such as One Rule For You, Lazer Love and Der Kommissar, they were originally a Mellotron/Hammond driven symphonic Prog band producing Christian Prog music of mini 11 minute epics in what you could best describe as proto-Neo-Prog - fortunately this era was captured on record as Signs Of Change, recorded in 1978.


Edited by darqDean - April 25 2008 at 19:42
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12546
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2008 at 13:35
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

Anyway, back to the topic Wink Phil Manzanera, along with Andy Mackay went down a similar path of making shorter, but still not-quite-pop songs in the mid-80s with The Explorers, featuring a little-known vocalist called James Wraith (who had a remarkably Ferryesque vocal style) - there is a live album available that shows what an amazingly good band they were - but they also failed to gain any commercial success.


By coincidence, I was saving  The Explorers for my next input - have to think something else now.... I bought the The Explorer's first(?) 12", and then was disappointed buying the LP that followed. However, I think I was relatively disappointed by a run of Manzanera projects through the 80's, including the Mackay and Wetton collaborations. And I think I wasn't ready for Manzanera's Central American jaunts either. There was that thing with singers having no more than a 1/2 to 1 octave range, of which David Sylvian was the best and now with hindsight I think was the most creative.
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37286
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2008 at 15:39
Sorry, Embarrassed
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
tszirmay View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover Team

Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5158
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2008 at 21:56
I was fortunate to see Random Hold live in 80s also , opening for Peter Gabriel . The guitarist was David Rhodes , who made the ultimate career move by joining Gabe once the Hold fell apart (Sorry for the pun) and stay faithfully by his side still to this day! I remember the fantastic track Montgomery Clift , a massive bass driven monster (Mr Mac Cormick) full of verve and passion, certainly more agressive than the usual fare but a definite classic.  The vocalist was supposed to be Simon Ainley who sang on some Manzanera/801 albums but I guess he wandered off into oblivion. From that period, Ultravox, Magazine , Split Enz, Simple Minds, John Foxx, New Muzik, Modern English The Fixx, Icehouse, Japan, Yello, Telex, Bauhaus, Talk Talk, Moev and a few other more sophisticated bands kept a match lit in the darkness.
"The more I analyze the human race, the more I love my dog" Mme de Stael
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12546
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 06:48
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

Sorry, Embarrassed


No apology required, what's the point of a discussion thread, unless people compare notes. At least Iit appears 'm not alone with this thought. BTW I like the thought of the bands keeping a light in the darkness of the 80's. May I suggest though, there was some aspects of these bands not quite being "full strength" like the classic early 70's prog bands???? However, to progress the music has to literally keep moving on, as well as meet the demands of new audiences, whilst technology brings about change as well. A new thought: consider electronica and the move to new age/ambient , which for hardcore prog and jazz fusion fans like myself came with a mixture of dislike/some enjoyment. For instance Private Music Records, in part owned by Tangerine Dream, was a the forefront. Initially there seemed to be accomplished keyboardist putting the ultra expensive Synclavier through its paces but ultimately it became wallpaper or lift music (Musak) - all foreplay and no orgasm. And I should note whilst enjoying some of the cyclic noodlings of Patrick O'Hearn or Eddie Jobson - it took Frank Zappa with Jazz From Hell to give that sub-genre some balls.
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37286
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 19:13
Personally I don't find the 80s to be quite the wilderness years as many people do. Regardless of fashion-trends and the mores and foibles of the music press, there will always be musicians who want to make "clever" music and an audience to listen to them and the 80s was no exception. The bands listed by tszirmay were Art Rock, just not Progressive Art Rock. However, I do agree that these bands and artists "toned-down" their music to fit the era, producing shorter, simpler songs because to have done otherwise would have been commercial suicide, most of them were never going to be Top-40 successes, but they still needed the Muso-press on their side (Neo Prog bands followed the same 'rules' but wore their influences more openly and look how the press treated them). But it is difficult to blame the new artists when the old school were doing the same thing - Genesis, Yes, Tull and Floyd weren't really doing anything they hadn't already done in the 70s in terms of writing short accessible songs, they were guilty by omission, by turning away from the long, complex numbers they were better known (and loved) for.
 
New Age is an oddity that is difficult to separate from those displays of relaxation discs in Garden Centres and Glastonbury-type new-age shops because the music was (let's be honest) insipid. New Age artists followed a similar path to remain viable - simpler tunes, just not (necessarily) shorter ones. There were a few good pieces in there - Claire Hammil's Voices and Stephen Caudel's Bow Of Burning Gold and Wine Dark Sea (all on the Beggar's Banquet offshoot Coda) managed to be interesting enough to stop you nodding off -  in another era they would have been called Progressive/Symphonic and only adopted the New Age tag because it was fashionable and it sold discs. (Something that was undoubtably a lure to people like Wakeman, Vangelis, Kitaro and even Tangerine Dream, who all dabbled in New Age/Ambient during the 80s and 90s).
 
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37286
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2008 at 19:57
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

  The vocalist was supposed to be Simon Ainley who sang on some Manzanera/801 albums but I guess he wandered off into oblivion. 
My mistake- I just assumed David Ferguson did some vocals Embarrassed, the vocalists were originally David Rhodes, Bill MacCormick and Simon Ainley, Ainley was asked to leave before recording sessions for Etceteraville began. (Ainley vocaled tracks are avaialble on Over View - a collection of RH demos)
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12546
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 05:38
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

 
New Age is an oddity that is difficult to separate from those displays of relaxation discs in Garden Centres and Glastonbury-type new-age shops because the music was (let's be honest) insipid. New Age artists followed a similar path to remain viable - simpler tunes, just not (necessarily) shorter ones. There were a few good pieces in there - Claire Hammil's Voices and Stephen Caudel's Bow Of Burning Gold and Wine Dark Sea (all on the Beggar's Banquet offshoot Coda) managed to be interesting enough to stop you nodding off -  in another era they would have been called Progressive/Symphonic and only adopted the New Age tag because it was fashionable and it sold discs. (Something that was undoubtably a lure to people like Wakeman, Vangelis, Kitaro and even Tangerine Dream, who all dabbled in New Age/Ambient during the 80s and 90s).
 
 
It used to be also bookshops in the Derbyshire peaks - I'm guilty of buying a few from such placed 20 years ago -  Windham Hill label always managed to have records with a little extra omphf, that means I still listen to those albums. But there were too many obscure labels found amongst the scented candles for relaxography - always with whale song -  and played as the shop's musak;  the sax instrumentals that made Kenny G, in comparison sound near to Coltrane.
 
In truth  the new age label was a band wagon for the multi-nationals to jump on. EMI had their's for instance with dumbed down jazz fusion (aka fusak)  including Ian Carr. The one you mention Coda wasn't too bad (Phillips??) but musically the artists list was a hotch potch, e.g. apart from the ones you give, (the Morrisey Mullen Band spin off ) Hubbards Cubboard, a rather good guitarist John Themis (but closer to new age than jazz fusion and one which include one of Gary Husband's earliest recordings). The American label mentioned, Private Music had a clear cut policy initially (I was their unofficial UK reviewer until they got a UK distributor), to promote electronica, but come the late 80's, Taj Mahal and Leon Redbone joined the roster.
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
salmacis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

Content Addition

Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 13:22
It's funny but if you ask some of the better New Wave bands of the era what their inspiration was, most of them reference progressive rock bands or the German experimental bands and interestingly, the New Wave filtered its way down to the old wave progressive bands; Genesis sporadically did it successfully ('Mama', 'Keep It Dark') but often unsuccessfully ('Who Dunnit', I'm looking at you) and the Talking Heads influence is arguably detectable on the early 80s King Crimson/Peter Hammill albums IMHO. Rush's 80s albums owe much to the synthesiser led bands of the era (I have an interview with Geddy Lee where he said he saw bands like Ultravox and Human League as progressive) and heck, I'd say Yes' 'Drama' owes much to the clipped sound of The Police, not to mention the involvement of synth pop duo Buggles. Then there's Peter Gabriel's third album which has various New (and indeed, Old) Wave alumni on it.
 
Not all of them had the same attitude as Dave Stewart (who I've seen been very damning to the punk bands, though I understand his frustration towards Virgin Records- they wouldn't sign National Health despite the previous ties the musicians had to the label) and Mike Oldfield.
 
It's a two-way process, as I said; Jim Kerr was an unabashed Genesis fan and the spectre of Neu/Kraftwerk is all over those amazing early 80s Simple Minds albums and Howard Devoto of Magazine confessed to being a Floyd and Yes fan back in the 70s. In fact, early Simple Minds and Magazine are my favourites of all that period. I'd say early Ultravox can be linked to the German bands, Roxy Music and arguably Curved Air (also the vastly underrated Cockney Rebel). Even Phil Oakey of The Human League referenced many of the Charisma acts (Genesis, VDGG, String Driven Thing) and Yes and Curved Air as being particularly influential on him. Japan also went on to have various links to progressive rock- not just David Sylvian's work with Robert Fripp but also Mick Karn and Richard Barbieri play in Porcupine Tree. I still think 'Ghosts' is one of the most innovative singles ever produced; you try and find anything in the Top 10 singles charts today that's as brilliantly bizarre as this is!
 
As for New Age, this was a curious phenomena indeed. I guess in prog Rick Wakeman was the most notable exponent/casualty but it extended beyond that. Van Morrison even dabbled in New Age in the early 80s on the albums 'Beautiful Vision' and 'Inarticulate Speech Of The Heart'- it must have been in-vogue at the time!
 
Don't like all that synclavier stuff; Stuart Copeland used the hell out of it on his soundtracks from that TV series 'The Equalizer' and I never got the aforementioned Zappa album 'Jazz From Hell'- I just find it so cold and it's ironic that the only song on there I could get into was the guitar instrumental 'St Etienne'.
 
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12546
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 18:11
Sal, I 've long said as soon as Police closed up (the cop) shop, Rush seemed to adopted the mantle of Reggata De Blanc for a few albums.

I reminded at what one of the member of Clash said on a documentary only a few years or so ago. "Our family was living in a high rise block, there was the three day week, and us broke - what the f*** use were Yes's lyrics?" An understandable set of social reasons for prog to seem remote and over complicated, and far less relating to the (young) people, not the medium for protest. However, given time and  success combined with the confidence of their art and studio craft, elements of Clash are reborn as Big Audio Dynamite (B.I.G). Their first album This Is Big Audio Dynamite, said at the time to be music around a beat box, is far more than that. It is a cut n paste job requiring many hours of studio time, taking samples for spaghetti westerns etc. etc.. Sure, as PIL would also demonstrate, given time the 3 chord punks, ended up doing something far more complex than adrenaline fuelled 3 minute tunes, once they had developed certain skills.
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12546
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2008 at 18:21
I had to copy this across from the Jonas Hellborg thread, to demonstrate the adventure you could sometimes find in 80's rock. Check the line-up on the notorious PIL's Compact Disc, which John Lydon apparently disowned:
(From  a gold mine of factuals at http://www.discogs.com)
 
Backing Vocals - Bernard Fowler
Bass - Bill Laswell (tracks: 1 to 6) , Malachi Favors (tracks: 3,5,7) , Jonas Hellborg ( tracks: 4)
Drums - Tony Williams* (tracks: 1,2,6) , Ginger Baker (tracks: 3,4,5,7)
Guitar - Nicky Skopelitis , Steve Vai
Keyboards - Bernie Worrell (tracks: 1,3,4,6) , Ryuichi Sakamoto (tracks: 2,3,5,7)
Violin - Shankar (tracks: 2,4)
Didjeridu - Steve Turre (tracks: 7)
Chatan - Aiyb Dieng  (tracks: 4)
Vocals - John Lydon
 
 
Producers - Bill Laswell , John Lydon

Now that's a great mix for progression!
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
tuxon View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
Senior Member

Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2008 at 22:31
which shankar, ravi or the dude from Shakti (ravishinimishidimidshidi, I always forget his first name).
 
judging from the time it will be Lakshminarayana, but if it's Ravi or what's his name I will accept it also.
I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12546
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2008 at 04:26
Originally posted by tuxon tuxon wrote:

which shankar, ravi or the dude from Shakti (ravishinimishidimidshidi, I always forget his first name).
 
judging from the time it will be Lakshminarayana, but if it's Ravi or what's his name I will accept it also.
 
The usual suspect, Levi and he's the only one I'm aware plays violin. Yes there a lot of the Shankar Family in the music business, but any more than the Khan family??
 
I like PIL's Compact Disc, perhaps for what dissimilar elements Bill Laswell brought into the mix. That's apart from the odd assortment of musicians. For example, check the tune Rise which starts off Balinese gamelon, goes Lydon punk, before shifting into a Vai stun guitar solo, all underpinned by an unmistakable Ginger Baker drum pattern.
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12546
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2008 at 08:07
Just spotted this at Amazon.UK trawling for John Themis recordings - the artwork put the New Age/Coda label things together:
English%20Renaissance
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37286
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2008 at 10:05
Wakeman's Country Airs does that too: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4540


Edited by darqDean - May 03 2008 at 06:50
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
Drachen Theaker View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 22 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 376
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2008 at 04:59
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Sal, I 've long said as soon as Police closed up (the cop) shop, Rush seemed to adopted the mantle of Reggata De Blanc for a few albums.

I reminded at what one of the member of Clash said on a documentary only a few years or so ago. "Our family was living in a high rise block, there was the three day week, and us broke - what the f*** use were Yes's lyrics?" An understandable set of social reasons for prog to seem remote and over complicated, and far less relating to the (young) people, not the medium for protest.
 
Presumably this socially disenfranchised Clash member wasn't Joe 'Diplomat's Son' Strummer who wrote most of the lyrics! My (quite possibly dodgy) theory is that the punks were proto-Thatcherites and their over-throwing of prog was a bit like Maggie getting rid of the old one-nation Tories (Ted Heath et al) whose time she thought had gone. McClaren and Lydon remind me a bit of those cockney wide boy yuppies in stripey shirts on the Stock Exchange sensing the chance for a quick buck.

Can't help thinking there's some historical revisionism going on when people talk about the social reasons behind the rise of punk. Despite the economic problems in the late 70s, were things really that bad for 'the kids'? Old school Labour were in power and there was still a pretty cushy welfare state - the punks could form bands and still get their dole money. Fast forward to the 80s and the DSS would have been forcing them onto job creation schemes - I would have thought there was a lot more to get angry about then...
 
And in genuinely hard times don't people often opt for escapism over social realism - eg. Busby Berkeley musicals in the Depression-era 30s?
(Nice thread by the way)

"It's 1973, almost dinnertime and I'm 'aving 'oops!" - Gene Hunt
Back to Top
BaldJean View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 6864
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2008 at 06:03
by the way, the album of Random Hold was produced by Peter Hammill, and it seems there has been some tension between the band and him, to put it mildly


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo pricipiis obsta
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 7271
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2008 at 12:33
Random Hold made a second album called "Burn the Buildings", by the way.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.